Old 10-02-20, 09:10 AM
  #33  
Skulking
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy
Does Rivendell have a history that goes back far enough that they have to make reparations for their past?
Most people alive today, and many companies still in business don't have history going back to slavery. How far back in time do you believe a person or institution needs to have before making reparations becomes necessary? Would you argue that black people in America today are treated equally in reality rather than just in words when necessary?

Originally Posted by 2old
Racism goes both ways; either is wrong IMO! Think I learned something years ago about two wrongs not making a right!
In an ideal world where nobody had ever been disenfranchised due to race I would agree with you. The point of reparations is to begin to make up for the generations of wrongs done to black people in America and try to balance the playing field. I realize that for many white people such as myself it can be hard to recognize the privilege we have had growing up in America because of the color of our skin. If you can look at another white family with more money and a nicer house, then you don't feel privileged, but the way you are treated for the color of your skin is undeniably different than the way a black person is treated in America, and that is your privilege. Working towards the ideal world where people aren't treated differently because of the color of their skin is something I fully embrace, but we aren't there yet, and behaving as if we are is only something we can do because or privilege allows us to ignore the mistreatment of others.

Originally Posted by FiftySix
I could ask the same from my step-kids. Which means the ultimate beneficiary of the "reparations" from Riv wouldn't be the intended person of color.

Just another type of straw purchase, IMO.
I'm not suggesting that you would do that, but they did address that in the announcement. They have decided to use the honor system on this and have asked that people respect what they are doing and not take advantage of it. That may be foolish of them, but I would hope that you have enough moral fortitude to not actually take advantage of this unless you are black.

Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun
So if one parent is white, the other black, do you get 22.5% discount? What about just one black grand parent? You need to show your family tree to claim this benefit? Exactly how the Nazis structured their race laws that gave citizens certain rights based on their "race".

The road to hell is plastered with good intentions. I get it, they try to do something good. But this plays right into the propaganda of a certain "party" that now has an argument to claim white people are discriminated against.

Chinese immigrants were treated poorly in this country. Remember the "Irish need not apply" signs in stores? And the internments of (US citizens) Japanese in WWII? No discount for them?

BTW, there are no biological human races. The concept of race was invented during the enlightenment in Europe where it was frowned upon on to enslave or kill fellow humans (mostly fellow Christians). The solution? Declare the people one wanted to enslave were a different race. Easy peasy. This bogus science peaked with Himmler and Mengele et al who tried to prove that whites historically are superior. All bogus, obviously, and doesn't withstand actual science (like genetics).
Sad to see we still use this concept of Race in this country.
Society in America doesn't recognize people as half black. It recognizes people as either black or not black and treats them accordingly. Are you suggesting that because one party may now use this as a soundbite to show discrimination against white people it is a bad idea?

Almost all groups have been discriminated against by another group at some point in history for some reason. But in America we have discriminated against black people on the basis of their skin color for 400 years. For most of that time the discrimination was not only legal, but was actually written into the laws. Are there other groups that have been discriminated against in America? Of course, but does that mean we shouldn't do anything to address the mistreatment of black people?

I understand that there aren't biological human races, but there certainly are societal human races, and we live in a world where people are treated differently based on how society views them based on skin color. It may be sad that hat is still the case, but it is the reality in which we live, and so it is a reality that must be faced and address rather than buried.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Perhaps Mercedes Benz and BMW will institute reparations pricing on their high priced products to the descendants of victims of their country's race based discrimination. They might even use calipers on their prospective customers' facial features in their showrooms to assure themselves that only people of the right race get the discount.
You will note that Rivendell is using the honor system for this to avoid the problems you are referencing. Doing so comes with it's own problems such as it can easily be taken advantage of, but they are hoping that people can be reasonable and decent.
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