JWK

By the time I tried to buy a Sutra this past year, they were out of framesets until spring. Then I gave up and tried to buy a complete touring bike and they were out of those, too. But I really want a frameset. I have a lot of components and don't want the crappy wheelset. So the 2021 bikes come out and now you can't buy the regular Sutra frameset, only complete bikes. You can only get the new Sutra ULTD frameset. I've ridden my friend's 2020 Sutra and I really liked the way it rode and handled for what it is (a touring type bike - stiff and heavy), but I've been riding a disc trucker for the past 7 years, so no surprises there.

The significant difference between the two is the stack/reach and the headtube angle.

Sutra stack/reach - 618/390
ULTD stack/reach - 627/400

The headtube angle on the standard Sutra is 71 degrees, the new ULTD headtube angle is 69.5 degrees. This IMO is a big difference and probably would make a bigger difference in the type of ride and handling than the higher and longer aspect of the ULTD, although the ULTD wheelbase is 1106 and the Sutra is 1070 due to that slacker headtube angle on the ULTD.

My riding will be on very rough rural pavement and gravel roads. I don't plan on doing a lot of true off-road riding, although there will be some of that. Lots of what they refer to around here as "jeep trails" and logging roads. These are single width, very rocky and rough.

I will not have a chance to ride the ULTD. The shops within driving distance of me have already told me they will not be stocking it. Order only. There is no test riding anything now anyway and there won't be until covid-19 is over.

I know there are some on here who are very knowledgeable regarding geometry and riding characteristics for various reasons. I'm hoping I can get some insight as to how much of a difference this change in geometry will make. It almost seems to me that the "new" ULTD is very much like the "old" Salsa Fargo from about 10 years ago, but I've never ridden one of those.

Any advice appreciated.