yea, i've been looking at those other rigs. i LOVE the evil imperial frame, but i don't really want to shell out a lot of cash initially. i know i will probably get hooked on urban/freeriding just as i did on road and mtb, but i'm not super sure right now. the haro escape series looks really promising since it seems to have better components over the p series and a better fork. i heard the exr comp was more of an xc fork and not for urbaning. the norco's look AWESOME and i have read so many good things about them. i just hope i can find a store nearby here in california that sells them. it doesn't look like they have that many us retailers. but it looks like i might be straying from the specialized now depending on how these other models weigh in.