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The Great Wheel Debate

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The Great Wheel Debate

Old 06-11-15, 01:14 PM
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There is tube, tire parts, air between the braking surfaces in clinchers, not on tubulars. The brake surfaces of clinchers needs more material as they are a 3 corner open box. The same manufactures clincher version will be heavier than the tubular. Seems by 100-200g / wheel - at the rim. I would expect adding a 100g heavier tubular tire like a PR version would leave you lighter than the clincher equivalent, and be less flat prone.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
I know it's ridiculous, but if I'm looking at the right website, it's not confidence-inspiring. You say these are Reynolds rims? How's that?

(This is the website I found: RaceRim, Quality Carbon Clinchers Wheels, Triathlon, Road, TT)
Ha ... yeah the website isn't best (really far from it) and like you said, not confidence-inspiring. They're local to me, a team sponsor, and as a result I've had great experiences directly working with the owner (it's one guy). He gets the rims direct from Reynolds and builds them under his name. He's quite involved with a lot of the local teams and I assume he does most of his business direct as opposed to online (I could be wrong on that though).

With that, I've got the wheels. Most everyone on our team has some variation of his wheels and we have a few pairs of "team wheels" that we bounce around; we all like them. The rims carry the Reynolds logo (underneath where the rim tape would go, not sure what that's called), and I trust the guy. Beyond that, not sure how to convince anyone that he's legit.

Last edited by hack; 06-11-15 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:24 PM
  #28  
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[QUOTE=gsteinb;17884812Adding to the weariness is the fact that over the past few seasons I've cracked three zipp wheels. East coast roads kinda suck.

[/QUOTE]
Ouch, replacing those has got to hurt.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
I got a set of Williams 58 clinchers. Slightly heavier than my no-name Chinese 50mm tubulars, but seem to roll better and so much less hassle.
I'll probably pick up a set of those next year as race wheels. I'll put my heavy (but awesome) Flo 60/90 set back on the TT bike for good.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:56 PM
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I would have no hesitance at all with racing on good quality generic carbon clinchers. I train on them, and use them for pit wheels. I choose to race on Zipp and Hed tubulars because they are a better quality wheel, and I can afford it. I also value the tubular safety factor. So hit the middle ground and race on good generic carbon tubulars.
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Old 06-11-15, 02:10 PM
  #31  
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I'm not inclined to replace 404 tubulars with 404 clinchers. I'm thinking more along the lines of kysriums, aluminum zipps, or aluminum some damn thing. Where breakage is less costly, and flats are changed at the car.
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Old 06-11-15, 02:17 PM
  #32  
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If you're going with alu clinchers, I'd recommend having a set built around one of the current crop of wide, slightly aero rims (hed, velocity, pacenti etc). You can get a really nice wheelset for under $1k, and unlike a system wheel (mavic etc) if you break a spoke your lbs can fix it.
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Old 06-11-15, 02:26 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
If you're going with alu clinchers, I'd recommend having a set built around one of the current crop of wide, slightly aero rims (hed, velocity, pacenti etc). You can get a really nice wheelset for under $1k, and unlike a system wheel (mavic etc) if you break a spoke your lbs can fix it.
I really like my Kinlin XC279 rims, which are super cheap, but they're heavy as **** (especially laced 3x with 32 spokes to my old campagnolo chorus hubs). Spin like champs though. Wide aluminum clinchers can be pretty cushy and are very affordable.
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Old 06-11-15, 02:28 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
I'm not inclined to replace 404 tubulars with 404 clinchers. I'm thinking more along the lines of kysriums, aluminum zipps, or aluminum some damn thing. Where breakage is less costly, and flats are changed at the car.
like i said, i've been very happy with my pacenti/white industries build. i train on h plus son rims to ultegra hubs and they've been bombproof (but are boat anchors, by design).
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Old 06-11-15, 03:00 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
If you're going with alu clinchers, I'd recommend having a set built around one of the current crop of wide, slightly aero rims (hed, velocity, pacenti etc). You can get a really nice wheelset for under $1k, and unlike a system wheel (mavic etc) if you break a spoke your lbs can fix it.
In that vein I'd add Boyd Altimonts to the list to consider.
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Old 06-11-15, 03:04 PM
  #36  
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As far as aluminum aero clincher rims go. I love my Flo30's. They are pretty damn heavy though.
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Old 06-11-15, 03:10 PM
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Agree with the Pacenti, CX-Ray, and White Ind. combo for aluminum wheels. Such a great combo (I love mine). The November wheelset with their White built hubs is incredible and cannot be beat.
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Old 06-11-15, 03:15 PM
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I use sew-ups for racing. Not sure why but I just always have. They work for me and I've always been able to get wheelsets and tires pretty inexpensively. Of course I train on clinchers though. My race wheels are all carbon but I've never used carbon clinchers.
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Old 06-11-15, 07:06 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
I'm not inclined to replace 404 tubulars with 404 clinchers. I'm thinking more along the lines of kysriums, aluminum zipps, or aluminum some damn thing. Where breakage is less costly, and flats are changed at the car.
Ah. Well, I currently race on H Plus Son Archetypes laced to Chris King R45 hubs. I like the rims, though they are not the fanciest out there, they seem very solid for the price. The Pacenti SL23 or HED Belgium are similar in design, but a bit higher-end. I think I would go with different hubs if I were building these wheels today. White Industries or DT Swiss 240s, perhaps. Weight of these wheels is around 1550g. Probably more aero than any Ksyrium out there, and better than a box section rim, but of course they're no Zipps. Just a 30mm deep rounded V. Basically the same shape as the Pacenti or HED option.
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Old 06-11-15, 07:13 PM
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What tires are you running
For training?
For racing?
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Old 06-11-15, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
If you're going with alu clinchers, I'd recommend having a set built around one of the current crop of wide, slightly aero rims (hed, velocity, pacenti etc). You can get a really nice wheelset for under $1k, and unlike a system wheel (mavic etc) if you break a spoke your lbs can fix it.
+1. Ksyriums suck all around.
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Old 06-11-15, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Doge
What tires are you running
For training?
For racing?
GP4000S II 700x25, Vittoria 700x25 latex tubes, Continental 30mm extenders
Vittoria Corsa CX 700x25, Zipp 40mm/80mm extenders
Specialized Allround 700x25, no extenders
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Old 06-12-15, 06:31 AM
  #43  
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Keeping this tangent going...my last two sets of wheels were carbon tubulars with ten speed hubs and therefore relatively cheap - Reynolds 66s and Zipp 303s. Both sets are shod with training tires, Specialized Espoirs on the Reynolds and Gatorskins on the Zipps. Neither feels appreciably better than good clinchers. So I guess tires are a big part of the "better" equation.
@shovelhd - what are your impressions of the Specialized Allrounds, especially compared to the Vittorias?
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Old 06-12-15, 06:56 AM
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I have been using Roval CLX 60s for my race wheels for about 2 seasons. They have seen me to a number of wins, including mountain-top finishes and the only flat I had on them was Catskills last year where I went into a murderous pothole.

That being said I did decide to go with some tubular 40mm deep FFWD wheels. But they have yet to arrive. I like the idea of Tubulars for a REALLY serious race (Queen stage on a Stage race, State Championship RR with hills, etc.) but aside from maybe 3-4 races a year where I think I will be doing alot of accelerating and / or the roads are horrible and are very high risk for a pinch-flat I would just use carbon clinchers.
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Old 06-12-15, 07:54 AM
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I race and train on clinchers. November RFSC58s and Stan's ZTR340s to be precise. Both wheelsets have Powertap rear hubs.

I mostly ride the carbon wheelset on the road with Veloflex Master 25s. I've had zero issues with them.
I've not ridden tubular but know a few guys who only race on them.

I only really bring out the Stan's wheels when I know the ride will have a bit of gravel since they have Gatorskins fitted. They get a lot of trainer/rollers duty.
I'll also use the Stan's for CX racing/training. I haven't decided if I want to run them tubeless or not.

I personally can't justify a 'race-only' wheelset and/or the hassle of gluing tubulars. At my level, I can't see that I would be able to notice any measurable difference between clincher and tubular in any situation.
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Old 06-12-15, 08:37 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by revchuck
@shovelhd - what are your impressions of the Specialized Allrounds, especially compared to the Vittorias?
I have one allround on the rear and I think it is an excellent tire. It feels much grippier than the schwalbe one that it replaced and I will definitely be replacing other tires with the allrounds when the time comes.
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Old 06-12-15, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
I have one allround on the rear and I think it is an excellent tire. It feels much grippier than the schwalbe one that it replaced and I will definitely be replacing other tires with the allrounds when the time comes.
They came mounted on the Stinger 3's I purchased with 10km on them. I haven't tried Corsa CX on the same wheel so no apples to apples. My other wheels with Corsa CX are Zipp 606, very different. My initial impression is that they are a good tire, about the same as the Corsa CX, maybe a little less plush.
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Old 06-13-15, 10:34 AM
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By using heavier tubulars for training I end up changing them about 2-3X a year when they get to the cord. Last puncture was 5K miles ago when the front was on cord.
Got the Challenge PRs 27mm on a blow-out for $42.50 and also a bunch of lightly used pro tour team Veloflex for about $20. I just buy heavy and cheap on eBay and in all cases they are a better setup - tougher/lighter than my clincher setup. No training flats in 10K miles when cord was not showing. I ride Vittoria Corsa CX with Latex clinchers and flat much more/mile.

For racing - we had a miserable start to the year and gambled on TT tires I had while waiting over a month for the RR tires we wanted while the supplier moved and was doing roads that were worse than we expected. The different regions bring different tire/rim challenges. For NorCal - next year will be mostly PR type tires. NorCal rains, has farm land debris and goat head thorns (which we get to a lessor degree in SoCal). In SoCal the 4 RR courses are pretty good, while the Santa Maria one is like NorCal. Vittoria Crono CS (180g) are not good to us. Veloflex Records (170g) have been very good, but like the Vittoria just too light for RR in NorCal.

FMBs (25mm silk) have flatted with a number pin (below:contributes to my dislike of pinning numbers) in them, and a metal spike post race. Best all around racing tire for junior. Coach switched over too.
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Old 06-15-15, 08:18 AM
  #49  
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You also could try something like a Mavic Cosmic Carbone or Hed Jet. The Mavic's will likely be lighter, but that will give you aluminum clinchers with carbon aero fairings.

I have a set of Cosmic Carbone SLRs. They weigh in at just over 1500 grams, and work well, but I haven't really used them since I switched to carbon tubulars. I actually have them listed on Craigslist now, so if you are interested, PM me.
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Old 06-25-15, 02:35 PM
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The last time I looked into racing clinchers I came across a Lennard Zinn Q&A on the subject which showed that race quality clincher tires actually have significantly lower rolling resistance than race quality tubulars. Enough so that it would take a climb of +8% for the 1lbs lighter tubular setup had an advantage.

This is an older article so maybe some more accurate data is out there now, I'd be interested to see it if anybody has some.
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