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Training Status??? (IV)

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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 06-06-16, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
it's all relative, right?

for some of us "not a weakness" = let's call it a strength! ;-)
Indeed, it is all relative.

Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
It's only gotten more confusing for me. In the 3's I thought I was a climby type thing but after upgrading it turns out I suck equally at everything!
Ha. I think the other thing is that as you cat up your "strengths" become less of an advantage compared to your competitors, and your weaknesses have a bigger impact.

This bike racing **** is hard!
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Old 06-06-16, 11:56 AM
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Sho nuff! Lotta fun though.
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Old 06-06-16, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider
"not a weakness" = let's call it a strength! ;-)

Honestly I think that's totally valid. In most situations it's your comparative advantages that you want to maximize, and your comparative weaknesses that you want to minimize.
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Old 06-06-16, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
It's only gotten more confusing for me. In the 3's I thought I was a climby type thing but after upgrading it turns out I suck equally at everything!
I keep thinking I should be all climby and then I'm just not, even when my ewang says I should be. I should take up a less confusing hobby, like nuclear physics or something.
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Old 06-06-16, 12:27 PM
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Vasectomy on Friday, trainer ride Sunday (easy) and outdoors this morning (again easy).

Will be a few days before I'm comfortable expending any strenuous effort, but at least I am relatively certain I will not have to live with PVPS.
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Old 06-06-16, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
Vasectomy on Friday, trainer ride Sunday (easy) and outdoors this morning (again easy).

Will be a few days before I'm comfortable expending any strenuous effort, but at least I am relatively certain I will not have to live with PVPS.
Yay!
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Old 06-06-16, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
I keep thinking I should be all climby and then I'm just not, even when my ewang says I should be. I should take up a less confusing hobby, like nuclear physics or something.
My training repeatable w/kg is lots higher than in race, at the moment anyway. If strava KOMs counted toward upgrade points I'd be good to go, but unfortunately you don't really get to say "gimmie a couple of minutes to catch my breath" when the race is on
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Old 06-06-16, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
My training repeatable w/kg is lots higher than in race, at the moment anyway. If strava KOMs counted toward upgrade points I'd be good to go, but unfortunately you don't really get to say "gimmie a couple of minutes to catch my breath" when the race is on
Yeah for sure. It's one thing to do x.xx W/kg in a 20' test when you're totally fresh off a week of rest. It's another thing to do it when you're zapped from racing hard on the hottest day if the year and then you have to go do it again. I set a 20' record on the first KOM at KSR stage 2 (still got dropped LOL). By the second KOM climb I couldn't got any harder than low Z3. Judging by the numbers, I wasn't even fully recovered this weekend. I need lots of time to catch my breath!
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Old 06-06-16, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hack
It's funny ... my power profile would suggest I am not a break rider either, but, with the exception of one race, all my wins have come out of the break.
What type of power profile would a 'break rider' have?

In terms of strengths/weaknesses, the only two things I know is that I cannot sprint (power is low but mostly my technique is ****) and that I suck at cornering.
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Old 06-06-16, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM
What type of power profile would a 'break rider' have?

A guy like me, who can do almost 10 w/kg for a minute but only 4.2 w/kg for 20 minutes, has no business in a break except as a wheelsucking parasite. A guy like my teammate, who can only do 8 w/kg for a minute but 4.8 w/kg for 20 minutes, should be in every break.
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Old 06-06-16, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
A guy like me, who can do almost 10 w/kg for a minute but only 4.2 w/kg for 20 minutes, has no business in a break except as a wheelsucking parasite. A guy like my teammate, who can only do 8 w/kg for a minute but 4.8 w/kg for 20 minutes, should be in every break.
My 20' w/kg is the same as yours, but I can survive in some (p12) breaks, and even bridge to them.

I could always use some more watts, or less kgs, but I don't think your FTP is a good enough excuse!

Sometimes it's just a question of how much you can suffer, I think.
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Old 06-06-16, 02:48 PM
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So good twenty minute power is a sign of someone who should pursue breaks?

How about good five minute power? What would be a good tactic for someone like that?

I know it all depends on race circumstances, just curious to read your experiences.
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Old 06-06-16, 02:49 PM
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Did 2 hrs of super easy recovery around town with my lady friend yesterday. Put the week at 9 hrs for my largest week so far.
I've noticed some of my belly pudge has shrunk but have not noticed any weight loss yet.

I regards to racing to your strengths, back in the day when I was fit, 5' power was my best attribute and I lost a bunch of races attacking solo about 5 minutes out. Also got a couple podiums though. The worst was getting caught 100m from the line.
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Old 06-06-16, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM
So good twenty minute power is a sign of someone who should pursue breaks?

How about good five minute power? What would be a good tactic for someone like that?

I know it all depends on race circumstances, just curious to read your experiences.
I don't think you should let your power numbers tell you how to race, period.

Try breaks, try sprints, and keep trying them. Try everything, see what works.

(in my opinion)
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Old 06-06-16, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm
Sometimes it's just a question of how much you can suffer, I think.
No question about that, and I acknowledge that I suck at suffering.

Having said that, when I've been in a break and get to the point where I think "I want to die now" and quit the break and roll right out of the whole race (which has happened twice that I can think of), and look at the numbers later, it's usually been a 10+ minute PR that basically blew me up completely.

Which I guess is more about learning to do less in the break. Nobody likes getting yelled at though, and there's nothing more pointless than undercontributing to a break and getting caught.


Originally Posted by mattm
I don't think you should let your power numbers tell you how to race, period.

Try breaks, try sprints, and keep trying them. Try everything, see what works.

(in my opinion)
I totally agree. "Race more and try stuff" is always good advice.

I was being facetious by saying somebody with 4.2 w/kg ftp has no business in a break. I am in lots of breaks. Sometimes they even work. More often they don't.

Last edited by globecanvas; 06-06-16 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 06-06-16, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm
I don't think you should let your power numbers tell you how to race, period.

Try breaks, try sprints, and keep trying them. Try everything, see what works.

(in my opinion)
I agree. Maybe in a race some random stuff happens and errybody's on the rivet after a bunch of hulkamaniac things, but you managed to surf wheels and save a big ol' match and a promising move goes up the road; it would suck to feel OK enough to go with it but let it ride away because your power profile says you can't ride in breakaways.
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Old 06-06-16, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
and there's nothing more pointless than undercontributing to a break and getting caught.
i'd argue overworking and getting dropped from a winning break might be more pointless, but that's splitting hairs.
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Old 06-06-16, 06:56 PM
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Can anything be more pointless than something that is already deemed to be pointless?
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Old 06-06-16, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rankin116
Can anything be more pointless than something that is already deemed to be pointless?
winning is kind of pointless.

If you beat 49 other guys it's not like they are all thinking how strong you are, they are all thinking of what they did wrong.
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Old 06-06-16, 08:53 PM
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1 hr TrainerRoad - Goddard
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Old 06-06-16, 09:20 PM
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When I have won in solo breaks it was all about 10' power and not exploding. When I have won in breakaways it was all about committing to the break and maximizing recovery. Hard pulls, maximum rest, paying attention.
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Old 06-06-16, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by PepeM
What type of power profile would a 'break rider' have?

In terms of strengths/weaknesses, the only two things I know is that I cannot sprint (power is low but mostly my technique is ****) and that I suck at cornering.
probably better than 4 watts/kg ftp ... but then again I've got a big kg number leading to low w/kg

Originally Posted by mattm
I don't think you should let your power numbers tell you how to race, period.

Try breaks, try sprints, and keep trying them. Try everything, see what works.

(in my opinion)
This ... race how you want, really there is nothing on the line, so have fun and race hard. If you want to get in the break, try it. I just know I am limited in long range power and fear the break, but have done well in the break. Dunno.

Last edited by hack; 06-06-16 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 06-07-16, 05:51 AM
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I understand, I was not trying to look for a tactic based on my numbers or anything. Just curious about what different power profiles could be beneficial for (apart from the obvious like sprinter vs time trialist or such.) I do take the 'have fun' approach: in all my limited amount of races (apart from the ones where I've been dropped) I have always tried to get on some break or initiate my own. So far it's never worked but once I'm in there I always feel like doing something, it's much more fun than riding around with the pack all day. Also, I know that if I just stay with the pack my chances of winning are pretty much non-existent, so what's the point?
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Old 06-07-16, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by PepeM
Also, I know that if I just stay with the pack my chances of winning are pretty much non-existent, so what's the point?

As the great philosopher Shovelcrates once wrote: "If it comes down to a sprint, you won't win, so don't let it."
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Old 06-07-16, 06:50 AM
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Generally speaking though, a person who is able to put out over longer efforts is better suited for break aways than someone who is more adept at short burst power.

Take me and Mikey for example. As discussed on a previous page, we have completely opposite power profiles. I truly excel at 1 min and shorter efforts, and I can repeat them a couple dozen times, though I need to recover in between. Mikey, on the other hand, has no short burst power, but is much stronger than me at 10 and 20 min. efforts. Therefore, Mikey has a better profile for a break away person than I do.

So, knowing that, I should probably sit in and try my hand at the final sprint. But, I spent all of 2015 getting dropped from pretty much every crit I did because I tried and tried and tried to create and stay in breaks with absolutely zero success. And depending on which of my teammates are in races this year, I'll give breakaways a go. I am never going to be able to do them if I never try.

Also, I never look at power during a race. In fact, I tape over my computer screen during races - the tape is usually stuck to the back of the computer when not racing. And if I am just out riding, whether a group ride or hammer ride, if I am not doing intervals, I have it set to a screen that just shows elevation gain and no other metrics. I prefer not knowing how deep I'm digging myself.
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