Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Training Status??? (IV)

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Training Status??? (IV)

Old 07-14-16, 10:41 AM
  #5476  
Senior Member
 
canuckbelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 944

Bikes: Scott Foil 10, Di2

Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Did lactate blood testing today. We're basing all my training off of that rather than 20min power tests. Then did my 10sec max and 5min max efforts. Hit 6mo peaks for both (decent considering it's hot as hell out, and I had to do it fasted...and without coffee).
canuckbelle is offline  
Old 07-14-16, 06:25 PM
  #5477  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
ahhh sprints new max and 5 sec numbersssssslfkdjslfkadklsjalkdsklkfds fresh watts are the best yessssss
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 07-14-16, 06:40 PM
  #5478  
Senior Member
 
wktmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 703

Bikes: CAAD 10

Liked 229 Times in 111 Posts
Hit a best 5 min yesterday after doing 3x8's with minimal recovery! Going to do a proper 5 min test some time next week, hopefully it will be even higher

Training crit today - legs were reluctant, back and shoulder were sore, and so brain was unmotivated.
wktmeow is offline  
Old 07-14-16, 08:15 PM
  #5479  
No matches
 
Flatballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,647

Bikes: two wheeled ones

Liked 444 Times in 250 Posts
Tried to do an FTP test today. I forgot how much actually training for bike racing hurts. Riding around on my bike is fun, climbing some hills is fun. Riding hard sometimes to go fast is fun.

Doing 5 minutes all out, and then trying to do 20 minutes above threshold, ****ing hurts. I was thinking my FTP was 200W. Which is atrocious considering I'm fat, but whatever, I've been riding again for a month so far.

So I did the 5 minutes all out aiming for 230W, that seemed appropriate. Got 224W average, close enough, but holy hell it hurt. 10 minutes of rest and then aimed for the 20 minutes. I was hoping to hit 210W, which would give me 200W FTP. I started out around 205W, and was fading fast. After 3 minutes I knew there was no way I was gonna hit anything close to what I wanted and I packed it in. ****ty ride. I feel awful. I still kind of want to throw up.
Flatballer is offline  
Old 07-14-16, 09:43 PM
  #5480  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
[MENTION=137631]Flatballer[/MENTION] - at least next time it'll be easier, hopefully!

20' tests do indeed suck; that's why I do them rarely I guess.

Rode around with some tempo, some sprints, just a random rest week spin for me.

And of course the week before Cascade I raise my saddle/change the tilt, and now it's.. less comfortable. Why did I change it?!!
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-15-16, 05:19 PM
  #5481  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
3.75hrs with 4x15min sweet spot. I did the first 3 with 3min of ~150w softpedaling in between, but had to ride up into the mountains to do the 4th because it's so fuggin hot out I was having trouble breathing properly. I usually do these either 1x/hr or by coasting back down to the bottom of a hill so it winds up being like 8min recoveries...3min is a whole different beast, but it sure is fun

Oh, also did em on flat/rolling terrain instead of my usual uphill type deal. So, intervals in hard mode I guess. The speed makes em go by quick!

Last edited by TheKillerPenguin; 07-15-16 at 05:24 PM.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 07-15-16, 06:10 PM
  #5482  
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Liked 3,110 Times in 1,418 Posts
6x1' (lost count and did 7, duh)
caloso is offline  
Old 07-15-16, 09:41 PM
  #5483  
Senior Member
 
aaronmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 3,462

Bikes: Cervelo S5, Marin Gestalt X11

Liked 65 Times in 45 Posts
Heres a very newb/whiney sounding post, please don't hurt me:

How do I increase ftp, and is it even possible? When I first started racing I was at ~300. Got to 325 somehow in a few months. Never got there again. I hover around 300-315 ALWAYS. I get jealous whenever people increase their ftp, it makes no sense to me and I feel like I just naturally have one single ftp that doesn't change ever.

I kinda came to terms with that for a while, as cat 3 wasn't much harder that cat 5. But now, all of a sudden I upgrade and have the lowest power of everyone in the peloton, save maybe mattm. And I'm wondering - am I really genetically limited to 300-325, or should I go out and spend 80 minutes at zone 4 2 to 3 times per week for a few months and see what happens? I'm currently doing 8 hours over 2 rides during the weekdays. One with VO2 20+ minutes, and one with Z4 40-80 minutes. The rest is endurance with a few short efforts here and there. Intensity is trained on the weekend crits/circuits.

Maybe I just need to up the time spent in quality zones per ride, but I'm at almost 110 CTL and I really don't know if I can take much more given the time I have.
aaronmcd is offline  
Old 07-15-16, 10:13 PM
  #5484  
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
I thought 2x20' @ 95% was the way to go for raising FTP.

The real question is though are you sure FTP is what's holding you back? I wouldn't measure your ability based on back to back races like Red Kite, the p1/2 is always really hard for the 2's that just raced. I used to get dropped in some of those p1/2 races that were 10 minutes later.
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-15-16, 10:25 PM
  #5485  
Senior Member
 
aaronmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 3,462

Bikes: Cervelo S5, Marin Gestalt X11

Liked 65 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by mattm
I thought 2x20' @ 95% was the way to go for raising FTP.

The real question is though are you sure FTP is what's holding you back? I wouldn't measure your ability based on back to back races like Red Kite, the p1/2 is always really hard for the 2's that just raced. I used to get dropped in some of those p1/2 races that were 10 minutes later.
315 ftp may not be holding me back but it sure isn't helping! Anyway, if there really is some way of upping the threshold it would definitely help - like maybe not getting dropped from my own winning break in the 2/3 race! Or being up front to maybe make the break in the 1/2 race. Sure, a second race is harder, but I have the endurance for it. Average power is usually only down 5 or 10 watts for a second race. If I can tack on 25 watts ftp that would be huge for recovery and staying near the front.
aaronmcd is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 07:13 AM
  #5486  
Senior Member
 
canuckbelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 944

Bikes: Scott Foil 10, Di2

Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
So the lactate blood testing has my true FTP at 233w instead of what my 20min power test has it at (265w). Apparently this is extremely common: 20min tests tends to overestimate by about 10%.

Anyway, endurance with sprint intervals today. Had a GI emergency during the second set, and had to cut it short. 2hrs, 141TSS. Tomorrow is the Rapha Women's 100...but now I have to do a sprint session afterwards to make up for today. Thanks coach.
canuckbelle is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 07:42 AM
  #5487  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
Originally Posted by aaronmcd
Heres a very newb/whiney sounding post, please don't hurt me:

How do I increase ftp, and is it even possible? When I first started racing I was at ~300. Got to 325 somehow in a few months. Never got there again. I hover around 300-315 ALWAYS. I get jealous whenever people increase their ftp, it makes no sense to me and I feel like I just naturally have one single ftp that doesn't change ever.

I kinda came to terms with that for a while, as cat 3 wasn't much harder that cat 5. But now, all of a sudden I upgrade and have the lowest power of everyone in the peloton, save maybe mattm. And I'm wondering - am I really genetically limited to 300-325, or should I go out and spend 80 minutes at zone 4 2 to 3 times per week for a few months and see what happens? I'm currently doing 8 hours over 2 rides during the weekdays. One with VO2 20+ minutes, and one with Z4 40-80 minutes. The rest is endurance with a few short efforts here and there. Intensity is trained on the weekend crits/circuits.

Maybe I just need to up the time spent in quality zones per ride, but I'm at almost 110 CTL and I really don't know if I can take much more given the time I have.
I think it is normal to get your ass kicked when you upgrade, and very few new cat 2s are fine immediately. I wouldn't start freaking out quite yet, take your licks and think of the racing as exposure therapy for your legs.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 07:52 AM
  #5488  
Senior Member
 
canuckbelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 944

Bikes: Scott Foil 10, Di2

Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
My coach tells me that FTP is the most trainable (compared to max power, VO2, etc). So yeah...it's highly trainable.
canuckbelle is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 08:38 AM
  #5489  
Senior Member
 
hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 3,888
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by mattm
[MENTION=137631]Flatballer[/MENTION] - at least next time it'll be easier, hopefully!

20' tests do indeed suck; that's why I do them rarely I guess.

Rode around with some tempo, some sprints, just a random rest week spin for me.

And of course the week before Cascade I raise my saddle/change the tilt, and now it's.. less comfortable. Why did I change it?!!
I did the same on Thursday. Knees and hips aren't happy about it ... wasn't a smart move on my part.

Originally Posted by aaronmcd
Heres a very newb/whiney sounding post, please don't hurt me:

How do I increase ftp, and is it even possible? When I first started racing I was at ~300. Got to 325 somehow in a few months. Never got there again. I hover around 300-315 ALWAYS. I get jealous whenever people increase their ftp, it makes no sense to me and I feel like I just naturally have one single ftp that doesn't change ever.

I kinda came to terms with that for a while, as cat 3 wasn't much harder that cat 5. But now, all of a sudden I upgrade and have the lowest power of everyone in the peloton, save maybe mattm. And I'm wondering - am I really genetically limited to 300-325, or should I go out and spend 80 minutes at zone 4 2 to 3 times per week for a few months and see what happens? I'm currently doing 8 hours over 2 rides during the weekdays. One with VO2 20+ minutes, and one with Z4 40-80 minutes. The rest is endurance with a few short efforts here and there. Intensity is trained on the weekend crits/circuits.

Maybe I just need to up the time spent in quality zones per ride, but I'm at almost 110 CTL and I really don't know if I can take much more given the time I have.
If you're talking watts/kg you've got me beat by a long shot. If you're talking pure watts, you might still have me beat.
hack is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 02:03 PM
  #5490  
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,945

Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son

Liked 43 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk
you can still hang w us!!!!
Originally Posted by caloso
Once a racer, always a racer.
Originally Posted by Flatballer
Yeah. You're not a Fred. You're a retired racer.
Originally Posted by grolby
+1
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Mollusk has retired to the halls of cycling Valhalla, where stretchy pants warriors live on as the wisebro on the group ride that rips others apart like wet pieces of tissue.
Thanks for the kind words everyone.

I am now in tourist mode when riding.

I do miss racing and being race fit, though.

Best of luck for those pinning on numbers.
mollusk is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 04:33 PM
  #5491  
Senior Member
 
rideaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 956

Bikes: Giant TCR, Giant Anthem, Felt CX

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I did some climbing today. At altitude. It was humbling.
rideaz is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 04:38 PM
  #5492  
Senior Member
 
canuckbelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 944

Bikes: Scott Foil 10, Di2

Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rapha Women's 100 tomorrow ^_^ Gonna be fun!

Unfortunately, because I had a GI blowup during today's sprint intervals, I have to do two sets after the ride tomorrow...
canuckbelle is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 05:33 PM
  #5493  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,742

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Liked 3,632 Times in 1,893 Posts
Originally Posted by canuckbelle
Rapha Women's 100 tomorrow ^_^ Gonna be fun!

Unfortunately, because I had a GI blowup during today's sprint intervals, I have to do two sets after the ride tomorrow...
huh?

also [MENTION=349187]aaronmcd[/MENTION] maybe you're plateaued with the current level of riding that you're doing. By "level" I mean your unique combination of volume and intensity. How long have you been riding a lot now, like a few years??? I think it's sort of to be expected that you'd stop seeing "free" newbie gains around now.

I think to raise your FTP you may want to either ride even more, or do some focused FTP work like [MENTION=74778]mattm[/MENTION] suggested. I'll bet if you cut those week day long rides down shorter and instead spent more time at threshold that you'd see a moderate increase.

[MENTION=33178]gsteinb[/MENTION] (where is he btw?) has a large FTP on an aggressive crit rider training plan. The guy does tons of 20' intervals. I feel like every other post of his on the forums is in this thread and something along the lines of: "3x20 at 100%", which is totally beast.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 05:48 PM
  #5494  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
Eh, the attacks last 3x longer, and there are 10x as many of em, and the races are like 30min-1hr longer on top of it. My experience is that FTP matters, but ability to recover from those efforts quickly and picking the right wheels matters a lot more. That stuff comes with experience and exposure. I think most dudes that cat up have a come to jesus moment, then get back to it, and eventually are totally on the level.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 06:18 PM
  #5495  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
Today was 4hrs but I was only allowed to go at stupidly low nose picking watts. 106tss @.51IF haha
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 06:27 PM
  #5496  
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,295
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jam Fund Hundo today. What an amazing route. The "hundo" loop added a bunch more steep gravel climbing and descending plus about a mile of technical single track which is always fun on a road bike. Just before we hit the single track Powers was like "heh heh you're gonna love this or hate it!"

7000 feet of climbing, 5 hours, 260 TSS, 1 trashed tire (thank you SRAM support for the replacement), and lots of roast pork and beer. Plus some quality time with [MENTION=196014]shovelhd[/MENTION]. Nice chatting with you today buddy!
globecanvas is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 06:35 PM
  #5497  
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
Did the first Saturday ride in months; I got shelled hard compared to how I did in it last year. Still out of shape, but I'm getting there.

I'm just wondering how much of that difference is wheels; last year I ran 46mm wheels and GP2k's, this year I'm running 27mm wheels and Gatorskins.
furiousferret is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 07:04 PM
  #5498  
Senior Member
 
aaronmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 3,462

Bikes: Cervelo S5, Marin Gestalt X11

Liked 65 Times in 45 Posts
Well today I did 2 circuit races and hit all time high NP numbers. 349 for 56' and 338 for almost 70' (with ftp of 315. Maybe I do get a free ftp boost with an upgrade? Lol.
Although average was around 90%
aaronmcd is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 07:19 PM
  #5499  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by globecanvas
Jam Fund Hundo today. What an amazing route. The "hundo" loop added a bunch more steep gravel climbing and descending plus about a mile of technical single track which is always fun on a road bike. Just before we hit the single track Powers was like "heh heh you're gonna love this or hate it!"

7000 feet of climbing, 5 hours, 260 TSS, 1 trashed tire (thank you SRAM support for the replacement), and lots of roast pork and beer. Plus some quality time with [MENTION=196014]shovelhd[/MENTION]. Nice chatting with you today buddy!
Nice riding and chatting with you too. I did the Fundo. That ride always kicks my ass. 68mi., 6300 ft, and I'm beat to ****.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 07-16-16, 07:33 PM
  #5500  
Senior Member
 
Wylde06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 2,208

Bikes: Cannondale Six13

Liked 58 Times in 21 Posts
I dont know if an 8 minute interval and a 4 minute interval count as openers for a 40k, but I guess I will find out tomorrow.
Wylde06 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.