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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 11-08-16, 06:22 AM
  #6726  
Wylde06
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As soon as I can get a separate power meter for my TT bike (or a stages so I can use the cannondale crank on my caad12) I will be riding my TT bike a lot more
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Old 11-08-16, 08:08 AM
  #6727  
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Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
As soon as I can get a separate power meter for my TT bike (or a stages so I can use the cannondale crank on my caad12) I will be riding my TT bike a lot more
If you look hard enough, you can find a Cannondale SRM used for about the same price as a Stages. I paid $550 for mine, and it came with practically new Force 11 rings.
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Old 11-08-16, 08:23 AM
  #6728  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
If you look hard enough, you can find a Cannondale SRM used for about the same price as a Stages. I paid $550 for mine, and it came with practically new Force 11 rings.


I have the Spider ring setup that I would like to use..otherwise I would consider looking for a used srm.


Also, I get a team discount on Stages..so that makes it a little more attractive of an option
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Old 11-08-16, 09:29 AM
  #6729  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
you should tell me their size and let mattm and I find them used bikes. the race teams all have people who want to upgrade (needlessly, mostly) every year and there are bargains to be had.
I'd be potentially interested in a used race bike, size 58.
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Old 11-08-16, 09:46 AM
  #6730  
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Originally Posted by Gramercy View Post
I'd be potentially interested in a used race bike, size 58.
you move yet?
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Old 11-08-16, 09:53 AM
  #6731  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
you move yet?
We'll be in Redwood City starting on Nov 27th or 28th.
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Old 11-08-16, 10:22 AM
  #6732  
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Originally Posted by Gramercy View Post
I'd be potentially interested in a used race bike, size 58.
How about a frameset. I need to get rid of my old frame(s) and have been minimally motivated to do so.
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Old 11-08-16, 10:34 AM
  #6733  
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Originally Posted by Gramercy View Post
We'll be in Redwood City starting on Nov 27th or 28th.
Climate best by government test!!

I'm excited for you.

Last edited by Ygduf; 11-08-16 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 11-08-16, 12:22 PM
  #6734  
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3 hrs high z2, just motorin' around. FTP test tomorrow. I'm doing this company led workout session in an hour, hopefully I don't do anything too stupid or strange that makes me overly sore for tomorrow.
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Old 11-08-16, 12:25 PM
  #6735  
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
3 hrs high z2, just motorin' around. FTP test tomorrow. I'm doing this company led workout session in an hour, hopefully I don't do anything too stupid or strange that makes me overly sore for tomorrow.
3 hours z2 would probably take 8 or 10 watts off my FTP the next day
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Old 11-08-16, 12:35 PM
  #6736  
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interesting. I find that if I don't have at least one hard day in my legs that I'm flat and underperform. I expect to do well tomorrow. I just came off a rest week that included three days off surrounding the weekend for my Texas trip.

At any rate the key letter in that acronym is the "F", and I have a routine that works for me.
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Old 11-09-16, 10:23 AM
  #6737  
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Hit my target on the head, but it may have involved a little puke in my mouth at the finish .
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Old 11-09-16, 10:43 AM
  #6738  
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I have 4x15 on the schedule but it is 50 and raining and I dunno if I can handle having that much time to be lost in my thoughts today on top of it.
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Old 11-10-16, 01:28 PM
  #6739  
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Off day today, ez 1 hr mtb birthday ride tomorrow . My bday is on Veteran's day.

I took a half day at work, so I'm going to sleep in, go for an easy ride, do some chores and just relax before putting in a mellow afternoon at work.

Should log 8 hrs over the weekend, with the SDBC A ride on Sat and a team ride Sunday.
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Old 11-10-16, 01:48 PM
  #6740  
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3 hours z2 this morning.

No base layer, no gloves, arm warmers had to come off mid-ride. Super nice out.
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Old 11-10-16, 04:24 PM
  #6741  
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DST always seems to be a transitional period - this year I'm coming to grasps with coach @Ygduf's critique of my training. His thesis is that I need to be doing more polarized training, and that I spend too much time doing 'tempo' compared to just straight recovery or high-end efforts. Inspired by:

Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
May start doing what you're doing...
this is a good plan for everyone, tbh
I compared our respective time's per zone in Z4+ for the past few months and found that while I do 40% more Z4 and about the same amount of Z5, I'm down 60% on Z6 (82.6 vs. 134.2 minutes/month) and down 120% Z7 (17 vs. 37.6). Thus, my plan going forward is to focus on getting about 72/36/30/8 minutes in Z4/Z5/Z6/Z7 a week respectively.

In evaluating where I spend my time, I think the idea that I spend a large amount of time spent doing 'tempo' is misleading, because its 100% not intentional (I do *maybe* 1 targeted Z3 'tempo' workout a month tops), its just a side effect of my 'easy/normal' climbing pace being at tempo power. I rack up a lot of elevation, and the disproportionately higher time in Z2-Z4 just seems to come with the territory. 250-270W up a climb is basically soft pedaling for me (I don't think I have gears small enough to generate the < 230W required to stay in Z2 up a climb...), but on the flat 250-270W would be just about right for a dedicated tempo effort.

My plan for spending more time in Z6/Z7:
1) add 4 15-20s sprints to each ride (2 at the start and 2 at the end), which should give me 7-8 minutes of Z7 that I want.
2) Actually try to do some work targeting Z6 (I've never really done workouts in that zone)
3) Try to turn some of my 'easy/normal' climbing into climbs where I get in Z6 work by doing things like 30 on/30 off = I still get to do the climbing I like, but instead of being in a 'wasted' zone I can get more time in zones where I am weak.

Anyway, I did two 'higher octane' workouts yesterday and today - ended up hitting Z7 on the repeats instead of Z6 and as a result the workouts where pretty short and painful (but hey, I got my '8 minutes of Z7' in for the week!). Looking at the numbers after the fact is pretty funny - today's was 230W avg but 330W normalized. All in all, a learning experience, but I think I now have a pretty good idea of what I need to do to hit my targets and hopefully train areas where I'm weak.
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Old 11-10-16, 05:01 PM
  #6742  
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
Off day today, ez 1 hr mtb birthday ride tomorrow . My bday is on Veteran's day.

I took a half day at work, so I'm going to sleep in, go for an easy ride, do some chores and just relax before putting in a mellow afternoon at work.

Should log 8 hrs over the weekend, with the SDBC A ride on Sat and a team ride Sunday.
I'll be there Sunday, probably in some festive holiday kit

Saturday, doing a couple of sweet spot efforts. These are starting to feel super easy again, probably because of the low initial FTP test. Now that I'm doing some more volume, I'm sure it's creeping back up to normal. Still taking it fairly easy during the week to recover from strength Mondays.
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Old 11-10-16, 05:05 PM
  #6743  
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Nice, see you there.
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Old 11-10-16, 06:26 PM
  #6744  
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I did my climb yesterday. A little regression, but that was fine. I've definitely added back a lb. or two that I'd lost, and power was up. 425 for 16:05 on the climb, 3rd best time ever where 15:50 was the best, a few weeks ago.

I think maybe maybe I could have gone <16 again, but there was a van that I was kind of stuck behind for the last 90 seconds. There's definitely some lost smoothness in the power chart where I was waiting for it to get through a corner so I didn't get stuck slowing down behind it.
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Old 11-10-16, 07:19 PM
  #6745  
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Originally Posted by scheibo View Post
250-270W up a climb is basically soft pedaling for me (I don't think I have gears small enough to generate the < 230W required to stay in Z2 up a climb...), but on the flat 250-270W would be just about right for a dedicated tempo effort.
What's your FTP?

if 270w is easy (assuming a long climb), seems like your z2 range should be higher than <230w.
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Old 11-11-16, 06:43 AM
  #6746  
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just started riding again after a couple weeks off.
yesterday: 1.5h z2
today 1.5h z2

i have 2 weeks off in december with no plans at all. was thinking of doing a solo 'training camp' somewhere with one of those weeks.
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Old 11-11-16, 07:18 AM
  #6747  
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Originally Posted by notwist View Post
i have 2 weeks off in december with no plans at all. was thinking of doing a solo 'training camp' somewhere with one of those weeks.
I did a week in Tucson last April and really enjoyed it. I'm planning on going back in February. Here is December's weather forecast, looks pretty nice.
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Old 11-11-16, 08:11 AM
  #6748  
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Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
I did a week in Tucson last April and really enjoyed it. I'm planning on going back in February. Here is December's weather forecast, looks pretty nice.
I'll be in Tucson between Xmas and NY. More affordable and predictable weather than SoCal.
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Old 11-11-16, 09:41 AM
  #6749  
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Originally Posted by scheibo View Post
DST always seems to be a transitional period - this year I'm coming to grasps with coach @Ygduf's critique of my training. His thesis is that I need to be doing more polarized training, and that I spend too much time doing 'tempo' compared to just straight recovery or high-end efforts. Inspired by:



I compared our respective time's per zone in Z4+ for the past few months and found that while I do 40% more Z4 and about the same amount of Z5, I'm down 60% on Z6 (82.6 vs. 134.2 minutes/month) and down 120% Z7 (17 vs. 37.6). Thus, my plan going forward is to focus on getting about 72/36/30/8 minutes in Z4/Z5/Z6/Z7 a week respectively.

In evaluating where I spend my time, I think the idea that I spend a large amount of time spent doing 'tempo' is misleading, because its 100% not intentional (I do *maybe* 1 targeted Z3 'tempo' workout a month tops), its just a side effect of my 'easy/normal' climbing pace being at tempo power. I rack up a lot of elevation, and the disproportionately higher time in Z2-Z4 just seems to come with the territory. 250-270W up a climb is basically soft pedaling for me (I don't think I have gears small enough to generate the < 230W required to stay in Z2 up a climb...), but on the flat 250-270W would be just about right for a dedicated tempo effort.

My plan for spending more time in Z6/Z7:
1) add 4 15-20s sprints to each ride (2 at the start and 2 at the end), which should give me 7-8 minutes of Z7 that I want.
2) Actually try to do some work targeting Z6 (I've never really done workouts in that zone)
3) Try to turn some of my 'easy/normal' climbing into climbs where I get in Z6 work by doing things like 30 on/30 off = I still get to do the climbing I like, but instead of being in a 'wasted' zone I can get more time in zones where I am weak.

Anyway, I did two 'higher octane' workouts yesterday and today - ended up hitting Z7 on the repeats instead of Z6 and as a result the workouts where pretty short and painful (but hey, I got my '8 minutes of Z7' in for the week!). Looking at the numbers after the fact is pretty funny - today's was 230W avg but 330W normalized. All in all, a learning experience, but I think I now have a pretty good idea of what I need to do to hit my targets and hopefully train areas where I'm weak.
1) A couple of times a week is probably enough. Your fast twitchy type stuff needs time to recover too, same as the slow twitch stuff. I've said a few times I increased 5sec ~100w and 1sec ~150w this year by adding 7-10 5-10 sec sprints into the first hour of a z2 ride 1x/wk. I was surprised how sore that made my legs, even though I could hit all of my other numbers on the other rides it still felt like I did squats earlier in the week. Also neck and shoulders were sore. I am a stick figure though, this may be different for other people.

2) is zone 6 vo2? I did a ton of that at the beginning of the year. My 5min max is up a ton this year, like 7% which is like 30w. Theoretically that has raised the ceiling for my FTP, and at the moment we are targeting that. I was able to do ~57min @ 99% on rolling terrain yesterday broken up into 2x15, 2x10, and 1x7ish (to total failure), which is like, lightyears ahead of what I could do the last time I did this stuff on rolling terrain, like legit 20w higher and 10 minutes longer in zone with the same rest periods (6-7min). I would suspect my ftp is gonna pop up quickly now that i'm working on it again, and it is because of the time spent in vo2 that laid the groundwork, and also getting my ass kicked all year probably helped

3) one of the protocols i'm given is 3x15 with 40seconds on and 20seconds off, which winds up being like 40sec vo2 and 20sec mid z2. Anyway this workout hurts a hell of a lot and seems to help.

Polarization def works well for me. Tempo can be more fun because doing 2-3hrs at a fast clip can be more engaging than the staccato stuff involved in going really really hard and then picking your nose. I do too much tempo I get flat. Also remember to rest, that stuff's important.
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Old 11-11-16, 04:40 PM
  #6750  
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Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
I did a week in Tucson last April and really enjoyed it. I'm planning on going back in February. Here is December's weather forecast, looks pretty nice.
Cool. I actually had the chance to ride there a couple years ago but couldn't make it. I'll look into it.
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