Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Training Status??? (IV)

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Training Status??? (IV)

Old 03-03-18, 08:13 PM
  #11201  
commu*ist spy
 
spectastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: oregon
Posts: 4,459
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
i was in a 60 mile race today, and for half the race, i could feel my right quad wanting to cramp. I was careful to spin it out as much as possible, and hold steady power, and not go above 700W, and it worked out. However, my legs did not feel particularly tired. They were just cramping. One thing I may have done was put too much gatorade powder in my bottles, maybe about 30% more than what I normally would've done. I also took a caffeine gel right before the race.

any idea what might have caused it?

my best guess is the increased sugar concentration caused me to dehydrate. I only had two bottles for the 2.5 hour race. My teammate came in and handed me another bottle near the end, which helped a lot. I drank pretty much the whole thing. It's unusual for me to go through that many bottles over 2.5 hours, especially when it's 70 deg F.

any thoughts?
spectastic is offline  
Old 03-03-18, 08:39 PM
  #11202  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
Lack of conditioning?
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 03-03-18, 10:52 PM
  #11203  
commu*ist spy
 
spectastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: oregon
Posts: 4,459
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Lack of conditioning?
i think i'm in decent shape right now. won the race. we were in a breakaway almost the entire time
spectastic is offline  
Old 03-03-18, 11:11 PM
  #11204  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
I mean that's awesome, but I based my guess off your previous posts where you asked about getting to cat 1 on less than 10hrs a week. Given you won, it seems like you're making really good use of your limited time, but if you really are riding so little I would not be surprised if it manifests with some crampiness.

Last edited by TheKillerPenguin; 03-03-18 at 11:16 PM.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 12:13 AM
  #11205  
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
3 hours on the trainer, 180 TSS, 1800 kjs. Two hours watching TV at about one fitty, another one smashing. Got my hour record by about 15 watts (could have done better too). I'm not necessarily my strongest now, its just riding outdoors I run out of hill, or something goes wrong (stoplights, etc.) in the span of an hour, and I don't attempt hour intervals often. One of the reasons I got a trainer...I had one but direct drives are just so much better.
furiousferret is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 12:21 AM
  #11206  
Senior Member
 
aaronmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 3,462

Bikes: Cervelo S5, Marin Gestalt X11

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 45 Posts
Racing tomorrow but sat out 4 days due to rain, so got in a medium ride (for a Saturday). 3:40 with a mountain in the middle. Rode out fairly easy, hit a little rain but not too bad. Did 19' on, 6' off, and 26' on up the mountain. Somehow I PRed the climb. By the numbers I am still weak, but I'm starting to realize my old stages read high and my new P2M likely reads low. The power is way better than a couple weeks ago though.

Rode home high z2 for 230 TSS. Hopefully didn't overdo it but its just an office park crit tomorrow.
aaronmcd is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 12:46 AM
  #11207  
commu*ist spy
 
spectastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: oregon
Posts: 4,459
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
I mean that's awesome, but I based my guess off your previous posts where you asked about getting to cat 1 on less than 10hrs a week. Given you won, it seems like you're making really good use of your limited time, but if you really are riding so little I would not be surprised if it manifests with some crampiness.
we did do a lot of climbing. and i was trying on the climbs and descents in the beginning to try to get the gap bigger. the input is appreciated. looking for any other perspectives.
spectastic is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 10:33 AM
  #11208  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 711 Posts
Originally Posted by spectastic
i think i'm in decent shape right now. won the race. we were in a breakaway almost the entire time
Yeah, but that still doesn't mean you are in the shape necessary to do what you did, if that makes sense. I've also cramped and won, and then later on in the season in even harder races never cramped. It was simply not being accustomed to the efforts at that point of the year.

So for me it's the conditioning. You mentioned caffeine as well, and I found that excessive caffeine (though that was a pill for me, not simply a gel) gave me horrendous cramps to the extent that I don't use it in road races anymore.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 10:45 AM
  #11209  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 711 Posts
CTL hit 91 yesterday and now I'm at -23 tsb and feeling fried. Been overanalyzing a bunch of race and training files and starting to piece together some new workouts that will hopefully target that high-end power at the end of races that I've been needing, but they are insanely hard.

Last year at the Sunny King Crit I had over 13 minutes of FRC, which is about 500-900 watts, plus another 16 minutes in the 340-500 range. And I didn't even make it to the last 3 laps after being caught behind a crash. So those are the numbers I'm currently shooting for just to make sure I'm back in the fitness ballpark, and ideally I'll be able to hit another hard 2-3 minutes at 400+ after that.

Managed about 16 minutes of FRC/FTP yesterday, but only 9 minutes of FRC, and I was absolutely crushed. And I did that over the course of 3 hours, rather than 90 minutes which is what the crit would entail. So a bit bummed to still be pretty far away after what I thought was a solid-enough winter, but hopefully it'll come together in the next 5 weeks once I start hitting more hard efforts. Wish I had a couple of decent local races I could do between now and then.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 03:42 PM
  #11210  
Cat 2
 
Ttoc6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: UT
Posts: 1,570

Bikes: Tarmac, Why Cycles R+, Evil The Calling

Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 605 Post(s)
Liked 194 Times in 87 Posts
Recovery hour this morning before breakfast, then rushed to hit the mountain. Best powder skiing of my life. Multiple chesties with blower-pow over my head in some of the bigger turns. Can't ask for a better day!
Ttoc6 is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 05:03 PM
  #11211  
Senior Member
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 455 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by spectastic
i was in a 60 mile race today, and for half the race, i could feel my right quad wanting to cramp. I was careful to spin it out as much as possible, and hold steady power, and not go above 700W, and it worked out. However, my legs did not feel particularly tired. They were just cramping. One thing I may have done was put too much gatorade powder in my bottles, maybe about 30% more than what I normally would've done. I also took a caffeine gel right before the race.

any idea what might have caused it?

my best guess is the increased sugar concentration caused me to dehydrate. I only had two bottles for the 2.5 hour race. My teammate came in and handed me another bottle near the end, which helped a lot. I drank pretty much the whole thing. It's unusual for me to go through that many bottles over 2.5 hours, especially when it's 70 deg F.

any thoughts?
Probably too dehydrated before the race started.
Radish_legs is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 05:40 PM
  #11212  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 711 Posts
Originally Posted by Radish_legs
Probably too dehydrated before the race started.
Didn't they conclude dehydration doesn't really play that much a part in cramping? I think I recall seeing elite marathoners losing 5-6 lbs over the course of a 2 hour race but cramping not being an issue.

Some postulated it's nervous system related (and marketed a product that's supposed to trigger the nervous system through absorption in the mouth) in that the muscles become so fatigued they start misfiring and that seems to make sense in my experience. I've tried everything from salt to minerals to pickle juice and it all seems to come back to being physically prepared for the efforts (and efforts in that type of environment, especially).
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 05:53 PM
  #11213  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
I agree. It feels good being able to blame lack of liquids instead of lack of training though!
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 06:28 PM
  #11214  
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
Cut my ride short because there were about 10 gangbangers under one of the bridges on the bike trail. Smoking weed, drinking Bud Light, spray painting, and admiring each others neck tattoos. Our trail is pretty empty, so when I saw a group going to the other way I decided its better I go on the return trip in a pack. I don't think they were there to jump someone but its always good to be safe. Still 3 hours, 150ish TSS.

Good week, just under 17 hours and 700 TSS. 56 CTL =\
furiousferret is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 06:32 PM
  #11215  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,200

Bikes: 2017 Raleigh RX 1.0, 2018 Specialized Allez

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked 632 Times in 337 Posts
2hrs with 4x20 @ 90%. After over unders yesterday these felt downright easy, hopefully it means 90 is really 80 something percent and not that power is lying to me lol
hubcyclist is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 07:07 PM
  #11216  
Senior Member
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 455 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by furiousferret
Cut my ride short because there were about 10 gangbangers under one of the bridges on the bike trail. Smoking weed, drinking Bud Light, spray painting, and admiring each others neck tattoos. Our trail is pretty empty, so when I saw a group going to the other way I decided its better I go on the return trip in a pack. I don't think they were there to jump someone but its always good to be safe. Still 3 hours, 150ish TSS.

Good week, just under 17 hours and 700 TSS. 56 CTL =\
I just had one of my biggest weeks in a while, 8 hours, 530 TSS. And I am wiped out. I don't know how guys can ride 17 hours. I'm going to be in a hospital bed at 12 hours. I guess I could do a lot more low-intensity stuff. But I don't have the time, and I wonder if that would really help anything.
Radish_legs is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 07:12 PM
  #11217  
Senior Member
 
wktmeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 703

Bikes: CAAD 10

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 229 Times in 111 Posts
After 4 days off for a trip to Yosemite, and forecast for possible snow at the UCLA RR, I decided to skip it. Glad I did, as I hear there were 40 mph winds on the descent, which doesn't sound terribly pleasant to me. Got out a little late on Saturday as I had family in town in the morning, and intended to do 3-4 hours with a few hard efforts. Went pretty well up Mt. Soledad in terms of power, but the wind made my time nothing special. Did 310w for 14 mins, which is about what I've been doing my 8 minute intervals at, so that felt pretty good. And this was with surging up the steep bits, so I think if it were steady I could do a bit more. Haven't done a 20 minute test since early this year, but it seems like I could knock out a decent one now. I think I'll just let San Dimas be my test. Coach is focusing more on heart rate/aerobic threshold stuff more than traditional FTP based workouts at the moment anyhow.

Did a few more hard efforts up some shorter climbs, then got totally soaked coming down Torrey Pines and decided to head inland. With the wind and the unplanned wet, I was feeling pretty miserable already, so to top it off, with about an hour left, I bonked really hard and limped home. Oops.

To recover from that I decided to go drinking with some friends in the evening. Hung over this morning, going to do a couple hours of z2 on the trainer tonight.

Next week is just some 4x8's, some z2, and then some easy spinning before Tour de Murrieta on the weekend.

Not super thrilled with my volume right now. Need to get back on some sort of consistent schedule. Except then in April I'm going to London for 11 days and will not be bringing my bike. I may do some weights and possibly some running or rowing though.
wktmeow is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 08:04 PM
  #11218  
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by Radish_legs
I just had one of my biggest weeks in a while, 8 hours, 530 TSS. And I am wiped out. I don't know how guys can ride 17 hours. I'm going to be in a hospital bed at 12 hours. I guess I could do a lot more low-intensity stuff. But I don't have the time, and I wonder if that would really help anything.
I go easy af (under 40% of FTP) and I smash on my go days. I ride everyday, it helps keep the consistency and the habit of training plus there is about 10 lbs to cut. I also feel better riding everyday both on and off the bike.

Tomorrow I'll probably do an 90 minutes of z1, or until I hit about 35 tss. More than likely I'll watch S1E3 of Counterpart because my neighborhood is too hilly and its 10 tss alone just to go up my hill and get home.

In a sense the hours don't mean much for that reason. I had more hours in z1 than you rode all week; but that's massively inefficient. For me, time over z2 seems to be the best marker. My best week for that is 8 hours, this weeks its a hair under 4.
furiousferret is offline  
Old 03-04-18, 08:16 PM
  #11219  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 711 Posts
Originally Posted by Radish_legs
I just had one of my biggest weeks in a while, 8 hours, 530 TSS. And I am wiped out. I don't know how guys can ride 17 hours. I'm going to be in a hospital bed at 12 hours. I guess I could do a lot more low-intensity stuff. But I don't have the time, and I wonder if that would really help anything.
It's like everything else. You build up to it over the years, little bit at a time.

But I don't typically do anywhere near that type of volume. This week I hit 10 hours for 748 TSS. Last week was 11 hours at 743 and the week before that was 9 hours at 667. That's more typical of my training. I'm more about the quality than the quantity because I don't have a lot of time as well, but that also affects the events I can realistically be good at, too (crits and <3 hour rrs= yes, 100+ mile rrs = no).

I don't ever do Z1 rides and try hard to limit the amount of z1 that occurs in my regular riding, minus vo2 and frc days where the recoveries between intervals are usually z1 (back down the hill).
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 03-05-18, 09:06 AM
  #11220  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
That's rad time usage. I put in 20hrs @ ~1000tss last week, and there was only one z1 ride @40min duration. You and @gsteinb are kings of efficiency.

I'm doing 2 days off, 2 days easy, and then ramping up for the last pre-season block.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 03-05-18, 09:42 AM
  #11221  
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
That's rad time usage. I put in 20hrs @ ~1000tss last week, and there was only one z1 ride @40min duration. You and @gsteinb are kings of efficiency.

I'm doing 2 days off, 2 days easy, and then ramping up for the last pre-season block.
Beast mode.
furiousferret is offline  
Old 03-05-18, 10:04 AM
  #11222  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
As stated, it's just something you work up to. The races I do are longish, so I can't skip the volume, though there are times I would really love to...
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 03-05-18, 11:32 AM
  #11223  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tulsa OK
Posts: 2,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2 hours solo outside on Saturday. Nasty wind including headwind on my big climb of the day. 3.5 hours zone 2 on the trainer Sunday morning.
therhodeo is offline  
Old 03-05-18, 11:39 AM
  #11224  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 105

Bikes: N+1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Was a gorgeous day yesterday, had to ride outside. Smashed myself for near two hours when I wanted to, easy otherwise no real plan. AP 212W NP270, which is above my set FTP, so I’ll probably have to test again soon. Training Peaks claims 192TSS.

587 for the week on 7.25 hours. Feel fried too.

Crit Sunday, and lots of work travel this week, so hopefully, I can keep some form this week so I don’t get spit out the back.
jacksonhandy is offline  
Old 03-05-18, 11:54 AM
  #11225  
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I had a down week after a few huge weeks. Did a few ergo-recovery rides to keep it smooth and even, then was sick as **** Saturday, raced 2x Sunday, and am now sicker than **** on Monday.

I can race and feel fine doing it, then literally feel the fever going up on my car drive home. Stupid sport!
Ygduf is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.