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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 11-28-18, 07:14 PM
  #12626  
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I used to see Cake at Old Ironsides and the Fox and Goose here in Sactown. $2 cover. Those were fun shows, that I can remember.
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Old 11-28-18, 09:13 PM
  #12627  
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Flew back to Utah yesterday and was too tired from the lfight + PT to ride. I was in bed by 5.30PM...

Today made up for it with a zwift race + 45 minutes of climbing. Had a massive power drop that caused me t get dropped at a crucial moment, but still a good workout none the less.
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Old 11-29-18, 02:56 PM
  #12628  
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Hopefully this post isn't too far in left field for this thread. Got back into cycling in mid 2000's with fixed gear, rode a few years then got into Powerlifting. Did that sort of for 3 years. Then at 34 got more serious about strength training, and have been consistent the last 5 years, road biked some here and there over the years. Purchased a gravel bike a few months ago and have been riding as the weather/schedule permits. Did my first gravel race, 20 miler with 1100 ft of elevation gain last weekend, got 16 out of 48 with a time of 1hr 38 min. Better than I expected. Currently strength training 4 days a week, spinning 3-4 times a week and riding when I can, maybe once a week if lucky right now. Planning to do the Grinduro in California next year, 2 days after my 40th birthday.
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Old 11-29-18, 05:51 PM
  #12629  
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Originally Posted by covpride View Post
Hopefully this post isn't too far in left field for this thread. Got back into cycling in mid 2000's with fixed gear, rode a few years then got into Powerlifting. Did that sort of for 3 years. Then at 34 got more serious about strength training, and have been consistent the last 5 years, road biked some here and there over the years. Purchased a gravel bike a few months ago and have been riding as the weather/schedule permits. Did my first gravel race, 20 miler with 1100 ft of elevation gain last weekend, got 16 out of 48 with a time of 1hr 38 min. Better than I expected. Currently strength training 4 days a week, spinning 3-4 times a week and riding when I can, maybe once a week if lucky right now. Planning to do the Grinduro in California next year, 2 days after my 40th birthday.
Seems like training status to me, so it is in the right thread. Sounds like you are doing a lot of strength training and spinning each week. Are you giving yourself enough rest to recover? I only ask because I've added strength training this off season for the first time and I'm having a really hard time feeling like I am recovering adequately between workouts. And that is with weights 2x per week and riding 3-4x per week. It may also have something to do with me being 50 yrs old...
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Old 11-29-18, 06:16 PM
  #12630  
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Originally Posted by cmh View Post
Seems like training status to me, so it is in the right thread. Sounds like you are doing a lot of strength training and spinning each week. Are you giving yourself enough rest to recover? I only ask because I've added strength training this off season for the first time and I'm having a really hard time feeling like I am recovering adequately between workouts. And that is with weights 2x per week and riding 3-4x per week. It may also have something to do with me being 50 yrs old...
Every 4th week I take a deload on the weights. The spinning is usually 30 min, so not super long. Definitely adjust based on how I feel. So far its going good, will drop to 2 days a week lifting as weather gets better and I can ride more.
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Old 11-29-18, 06:20 PM
  #12631  
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What are your goals with cycling? As you may know specificity will get the best gains, so if you want to perform better on the bike, consider dropping your strength training to 2 days and increasing time in the saddle. Gotta build up those slow twitch fibers.
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Old 11-29-18, 06:22 PM
  #12632  
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Agree on the saddle time. It's hard to prepare for a 90 min race with 30 min training sessions.
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Old 11-29-18, 07:48 PM
  #12633  
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https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitnes...cyclist-352428

I've been in the gym 5 days a week still. Strength waaay up but not to pre-racing levels. But I did lift 300 pounds straight off the ground for the first time in my life (in gymnastics I never did deadlift).

Thinking moe about riding. Went for a ride last week, 30 miles got tired, so I must be hella outa shape. Still haven't replaced the cable in my race bike, and busy plannign January vacation and work eats up time. The gym is addicting as hell, I'd rather go to the gym and add weight every day than go out riding and feel weak. Also I love my gym and it's 2 blocks away with free coffee. I may keep going twice a week and try and train the bike also. It can't be worse than anything else I've tried lol.
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Old 11-30-18, 06:27 AM
  #12634  
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
What are your goals with cycling? As you may know specificity will get the best gains, so if you want to perform better on the bike, consider dropping your strength training to 2 days and increasing time in the saddle. Gotta build up those slow twitch fibers.
Specificity is king for sure. My goal is just to get better at cycling but I'm preparing for the Grinduro in September of 2019. Already looking at a few other gravel rides and local road rides to do. Will drop to 2 days a week once I can get on the bike more for sure. The spin bike we have is nice, but may try to get a trainer and swift just so I can get more time on my bike.
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Old 11-30-18, 09:07 AM
  #12635  
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Sounds like a plan! I wish you luck in your race.
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Old 11-30-18, 09:31 AM
  #12636  
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitnes...cyclist-352428

I've been in the gym 5 days a week still. Strength waaay up but not to pre-racing levels. But I did lift 300 pounds straight off the ground for the first time in my life (in gymnastics I never did deadlift).

Thinking moe about riding. Went for a ride last week, 30 miles got tired, so I must be hella outa shape. Still haven't replaced the cable in my race bike, and busy plannign January vacation and work eats up time. The gym is addicting as hell, I'd rather go to the gym and add weight every day than go out riding and feel weak. Also I love my gym and it's 2 blocks away with free coffee. I may keep going twice a week and try and train the bike also. It can't be worse than anything else I've tried lol.
Check this out...http://www.ridethetrack.com/pdf/train_paulrogers.pdf Maybe we have a track sprinter in the making. Note all the one leg work including throwing the sled at different speeds to match speed and force on the bike. I jump but the idea of a one leg back lift or dead lift seems like a prescription to tweak a knee but I am sure one could do these with practice and increase weight slowly. Note at the end, the endurance trackies got their strength training using big gears on climbs.
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Old 11-30-18, 09:57 AM
  #12637  
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Originally Posted by covpride View Post
Hopefully this post isn't too far in left field for this thread. Got back into cycling in mid 2000's with fixed gear, rode a few years then got into Powerlifting. Did that sort of for 3 years. Then at 34 got more serious about strength training, and have been consistent the last 5 years, road biked some here and there over the years. Purchased a gravel bike a few months ago and have been riding as the weather/schedule permits. Did my first gravel race, 20 miler with 1100 ft of elevation gain last weekend, got 16 out of 48 with a time of 1hr 38 min. Better than I expected. Currently strength training 4 days a week, spinning 3-4 times a week and riding when I can, maybe once a week if lucky right now. Planning to do the Grinduro in California next year, 2 days after my 40th birthday.
Good post and welcome. One of my former coaches, coached the Belarus National team. He divides racers into groups pros (P/1s) and tourists (everyone else) and strong guys and weak guys. Weak guys strength train and the strong guys jump. You would be a strong tourist and jump with some strength work.

As a power lifter you have more than enough strength and some would argue that that the speed of muscle contraction during power lifting is too slow for cycling other than a standing start. Also, heavy lifting that increases strength causes the muscle to relax more slowly after contraction. So at sprint cadences, the muscles fight each other (we use one leg at a time). Plyometrics cause muscles to get strong while decreasing the time to relax hence supporting higher cadences. But we are all individuals and it is always about what an athlete will do versus what might be the best for him or her.

So my former couch would have you lifting once per week and jumping two to three times per week with focus on speed of lifting. Then he would put you on the bike in his cycling gym where he could watch you grind out 3x20 minute workouts a couple of time per week with one long road ride. That is just one idea to couple strength training with indoor and outdoor cycling. There are many.

Here is an article from the Aussies national track team strength coach http://www.ridethetrack.com/pdf/train_paulrogers.pdf - one leg 1 meter box jumps: priceless.
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Old 11-30-18, 10:38 AM
  #12638  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Good post and welcome. One of my former coaches, coached the Belarus National team. He divides racers into groups pros (P/1s) and tourists (everyone else) and strong guys and weak guys. Weak guys strength train and the strong guys jump. You would be a strong tourist and jump with some strength work.

As a power lifter you have more than enough strength and some would argue that that the speed of muscle contraction during power lifting is too slow for cycling other than a standing start. Also, heavy lifting that increases strength causes the muscle to relax more slowly after contraction. So at sprint cadences, the muscles fight each other (we use one leg at a time). Plyometrics cause muscles to get strong while decreasing the time to relax hence supporting higher cadences. But we are all individuals and it is always about what an athlete will do versus what might be the best for him or her.

So my former couch would have you lifting once per week and jumping two to three times per week with focus on speed of lifting. Then he would put you on the bike in his cycling gym where he could watch you grind out 3x20 minute workouts a couple of time per week with one long road ride. That is just one idea to couple strength training with indoor and outdoor cycling. There are many.

Here is an article from the Aussies national track team strength coach http://www.ridethetrack.com/pdf/train_paulrogers.pdf - one leg 1 meter box jumps: priceless.
Awesome reply, thanks for the info, will definitely research more. The last two years I was focused on weightlifting (snatch/clean and jerk). Bit been doing more general strength work this year. Going to check out that link above as well.
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Old 11-30-18, 02:30 PM
  #12639  
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+1 very nice reply.
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Old 11-30-18, 02:49 PM
  #12640  
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I know it's the way it is, but very frustrating windy TT practice ride of about 10 miles. 8 miles "in the gas". I did a little tempo 10k run this morning and was down a tad on power. Power during the effort was decent.

But the stuff the wind was doing was just criminal. I went back and looked and on the out leg should have had a solid tail wind of about 10mph. Well, entire time outbound I felt it over my right shoulder from the front. It was even pushing me that way a touch.

Then, on the way back which is slightly uphill, definitely into the wind. Got me down pretty slow with a gust or two.

Just very frustrating to want to go ride the TT bike when I have time to myself and it's something like this.

The wind was playing games so much today that my avg speed was the same as a ride with driving rain and wind at the coliseum weeks back where I had to coast and brake like crazy. And with more power today too!

For out/back, what constitutes a good situation vs. a bad situation for your speed? Let's say it's downhill outbound and uphill inbound on the out/back.

I guess on a wind-less day I need to do some base-line testing to get some data. I'm just flustered right now.
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Old 11-30-18, 06:09 PM
  #12641  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I know it's the way it is, but very frustrating windy TT practice ride of about 10 miles. 8 miles "in the gas". I did a little tempo 10k run this morning and was down a tad on power. Power during the effort was decent.

But the stuff the wind was doing was just criminal. I went back and looked and on the out leg should have had a solid tail wind of about 10mph. Well, entire time outbound I felt it over my right shoulder from the front. It was even pushing me that way a touch.

Then, on the way back which is slightly uphill, definitely into the wind. Got me down pretty slow with a gust or two.

Just very frustrating to want to go ride the TT bike when I have time to myself and it's something like this.

The wind was playing games so much today that my avg speed was the same as a ride with driving rain and wind at the coliseum weeks back where I had to coast and brake like crazy. And with more power today too!

For out/back, what constitutes a good situation vs. a bad situation for your speed? Let's say it's downhill outbound and uphill inbound on the out/back.

I guess on a wind-less day I need to do some base-line testing to get some data. I'm just flustered right now.
Check out best bike split. Play with and see what you get for results! It's a really cool tool and you can do a lot with a free account.

Re: gym work. I definitely feel the addiction too. It's just awesome when you get a lift and can look down at yourself holding up all the weight. There's a video out there of Arnold Schwarzenegger talking about "the pump" and it is totally the truth.

Training... well.. I'm sick again. Team meeting last night and my mild cold turns into a full blown sinus infection. Had to stop off to get drugs at CVS just so I could breathe and go to bed. Was supposed to get out for my first xc ski of the year but not gonna happen now. On the plus side my knee is definitely on the mend. Graston + ultrasound seems to be doing the trick. Not back to 100% but definitely better than it was
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Old 12-03-18, 12:39 AM
  #12642  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I know it's the way it is, but very frustrating windy TT practice ride of about 10 miles. 8 miles "in the gas". I did a little tempo 10k run this morning and was down a tad on power. Power during the effort was decent.

But the stuff the wind was doing was just criminal. I went back and looked and on the out leg should have had a solid tail wind of about 10mph. Well, entire time outbound I felt it over my right shoulder from the front. It was even pushing me that way a touch.

Then, on the way back which is slightly uphill, definitely into the wind. Got me down pretty slow with a gust or two.

Just very frustrating to want to go ride the TT bike when I have time to myself and it's something like this.

The wind was playing games so much today that my avg speed was the same as a ride with driving rain and wind at the coliseum weeks back where I had to coast and brake like crazy. And with more power today too!

For out/back, what constitutes a good situation vs. a bad situation for your speed? Let's say it's downhill outbound and uphill inbound on the out/back.

I guess on a wind-less day I need to do some base-line testing to get some data. I'm just flustered right now.
TTs are going to happen on windy days. So your ride today was a chance to learn what that feels like. There’s zero reason to feel frustrated, it really should be seen as an opportunity- to read the wind, pace your effort, and gain experience with handling the bike in windy conditions.

The point of TTing is not to go as fast as you ever can. It’s to go faster than anyone else for the day’s conditions.

I don’t understand your question about a good vs bad situation for speed on an out and back. But in TTing your speed is what it is. The goal is to parcel out your effort perfectly. If you’re asking how to pace an outbound/downhill/tailwind vs a return/uphill/headwind, it really depends on several factors: the magnitude of the wind, how aero you are, your likely speed (ie how long you will be experiencing each condition), and the % grade up/downhill. You will get a bigger bang for your buck putting out slightly more power when you’re going slower- ie into a headwind or up a hill.

So if I ride a TT course with an outbound/downhill/tailwind leg (as I frequently do), I would start by trying to predict my split times based on forecast temperature and wind, and to a lesser extent road conditions (ie whether the road will be wet). So for me, racing a 20k TT, in 8 mph wind, tailwind outbound at 1% downhill grade, 70F, my splits mighg be something like 14 min out and 18 min back. In theory, I should be able to do the entire race at 105%, so I might go out at around 102-103% and try to come back at 107%, if I felt like 107% was gonna be sustainable for me for 18 min based on how training has been going at that point in time. All of that is just a gameplan though- when you are actually out there racing, you just have to take it moment by moment because forecasts are inaccurate and no matter how well prepared you are, you can always have an off day.

tl/dr train in wind if you want to learn to race in wind
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Old 12-03-18, 12:53 AM
  #12643  
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Just back from a week of mountain biking in Sedona. Awesome riding, challenging and scenic. Got a little better over the course of the trip. Working with the instructor in Moab back in Sept definitely helped with technique on the rocky stuff, as did riding from the condo door mostly (which meant repeatedly riding some trails, the repetition definitely helps). A friend joined us for a few days, and another came up from Phoenix to ride one day. Riding with other people helps too, someone around to call 911 if it comes to that. Means you can go for it a little more.

Great javelina sighting one day, must have been the worlds friendliest javelina family and we spent around 30-40 minutes just hanging with them, piglets included. It was very cool.



Actually registered for a TT today but then hit traffic on the drive home yesterday and got home late, no time to get my stuff together. Decided to sleep in one and treat today like a proper last-day-of-vacation. Did an easy coffee ride with a friend.

Two days of rain forecast this week, so that may translate to some trainer TT workouts for me this week.
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Old 12-03-18, 09:54 AM
  #12644  
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Climbed the GMR 8 mile climb on Saturday and 2 hours of tempo on Sunday. Who would have known that a paparazzi videographer would be lurking new the finish. I would have put in a couple more watts.


Last edited by Hermes; 12-03-18 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 12-03-18, 10:50 AM
  #12645  
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Rode 90% + of FTP for an hour on Friday and that wrecked me this weekend. Still other than my diet not getting in line its been a couple of good weeks.

I always tell my teammates that I'm only competitive at peak form, whereas they're competitive all the time (local group scene). That's confirmed these past 3 weeks; I can't even hang with the grupetto up Oak Glen. Oh well, no one really cares how fast you are in December. I'm not really complaining, the first 3 years I raced I didn't even sniff being competitive at any level, I made pretty good strides this year.
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Old 12-03-18, 11:17 AM
  #12646  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Climbed the GMR 8 mile climb on Saturday and 2 hours of tempo on Sunday. Who would have know that a paparazzi videographer would be lurking new the finish. I would have put in a couple more watts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCO2e2Bujfw
Love me some GMR!
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Old 12-03-18, 02:11 PM
  #12647  
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Was excited to see that it was 45 F when I started my ride this morning. Plus some of the side canyons I ride thru have much cooler micro climates.

I have all this warm weather gear that I rarely use and it feels nice to get some value out of it. Shoe covers, gloves, LS fleece lined jersey, wind vest, leg warmers and lightweight buff thing for my neck. Was def. prepared - even peeled off a few items for the Soledad climb and then after the descent as it warmed.
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Old 12-03-18, 05:40 PM
  #12648  
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Originally Posted by Heathpack View Post


TTs are going to happen on windy days. So your ride today was a chance to learn what that feels like. Thereís zero reason to feel frustrated, it really should be seen as an opportunity- to read the wind, pace your effort, and gain experience with handling the bike in windy conditions.

The point of TTing is not to go as fast as you ever can. Itís to go faster than anyone else for the dayís conditions.

I donít understand your question about a good vs bad situation for speed on an out and back. But in TTing your speed is what it is. The goal is to parcel out your effort perfectly. If youíre asking how to pace an outbound/downhill/tailwind vs a return/uphill/headwind, it really depends on several factors: the magnitude of the wind, how aero you are, your likely speed (ie how long you will be experiencing each condition), and the % grade up/downhill. You will get a bigger bang for your buck putting out slightly more power when youíre going slower- ie into a headwind or up a hill.

So if I ride a TT course with an outbound/downhill/tailwind leg (as I frequently do), I would start by trying to predict my split times based on forecast temperature and wind, and to a lesser extent road conditions (ie whether the road will be wet). So for me, racing a 20k TT, in 8 mph wind, tailwind outbound at 1% downhill grade, 70F, my splits mighg be something like 14 min out and 18 min back. In theory, I should be able to do the entire race at 105%, so I might go out at around 102-103% and try to come back at 107%, if I felt like 107% was gonna be sustainable for me for 18 min based on how training has been going at that point in time. All of that is just a gameplan though- when you are actually out there racing, you just have to take it moment by moment because forecasts are inaccurate and no matter how well prepared you are, you can always have an off day.

tl/dr train in wind if you want to learn to race in wind
I appreciate that, needed to hear it. I need to look at things like that as opportunity and a way to try and learn something. Because ďmuch you have to learn, hrmmm!!Ē. In Yoda speak.

I took that thought process into todayís gravel grind. 78mi and about 6k feet. Worked on pacing , thinking about lines and flow, and staying on my nutrition for once.

It didnít make for fast laps as it was a base ride, but made for a very enjoyable ride with segment times equal or better even once tired as I was getting into the flow.


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Old 12-03-18, 09:34 PM
  #12649  
Ttoc6
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Feeling better after a few days of rest and off the bike. 30 min of sweat yesterday. An hour today. Back to trying sweet spot tomorrow.

Pt is going incredibly. The visible knot of scar tissue is nearly gone and I've really only had sharp pain once in the last week when I squatted down to look at the lowest shelf in the grocery store.
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Old 12-08-18, 06:30 PM
  #12650  
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z2 season in full swing for me - been riding mid-day, which sure beats getting up early and riding when itís dark & cold!

did a 1x240í z2 interval today.
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