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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 10-07-19, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
I spent a bunch of September putzing around wondering wtf was going on with my legs that were making them suck so bad, and now that I've rested I'm doing PB repeatable power and w/kg. Based on this and some other weird thing that were going on it is seeming like i have been overtrained, and so the goal is to better prioritize freshness in the long-term. I'm trying to figure out what this means for training this winter and for staying sharp between races next year. I'm wagering a normal base period is probably a good thing but that in season I need to be more low key between weekends instead of ripping intervals. I'll be doing some experimenting thru November to test out approaches.
Twinsies. I spent all summer chasing crowns on Strava and plateaued for about two months, then started losing fitness. Like, holding 200W on flat ground was becoming difficult and my cadence was 7-9 rpm slower than usual. I took some "time off" then started doing easy rides while trying to limit intensity to 10-15 mins tops per ride. Seems to be working.

There's documentation showing interval sessions should only be done 2 times a week, 3 max (probably 2.5 with how old you and I are getting). More than that and fatigue will build up, then you'll have difficulty fully recovering between rides, then the quality of your interval sessions goes out the window. Living in a hilly area makes zone 2 rides rough, so I'll be leaning on Zwift pretty hard this winter.
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Old 10-07-19, 09:39 AM
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Raced CX on Saturday. My kid is all in on cross this fall and signed up for the whole season. And do it on his SSCX. Rode really well and got 4th. And had really consistent times, like within 10 seconds of his fastest and slowest. Super proud of that kid.

I decided to race the C's because it's the same time as the Juniors. Being a Road Cat 3, I was a little sensitive about being seen as a sandbagger, so when the whistle went I soft pedaled and allowed a 50m gap. And then there was a pile up on the first lap that tangled up most of my group and I sailed right through. Took 3rd. Yay me.

What's sad is that when I looked at my times compared to the B's, it looks like I'm about where I should be. Womp womp. But anyway, superfun.
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Old 10-07-19, 02:58 PM
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I've been stuck on the trainer for a few weeks; this was supposed to be the time of year that I'm doing yard work to catch up but tbh, 10 hours on the trainer is just as hard as 16 outdoors. Alot of those hours are z1 getting to the ride, descending, etc. Also mixing in gym workouts, but those are very short.


This is my time in or over tempo. A lot in Tempo or Threshold. Definitely more v02 and anaerobic outdoors, so I don't necessarily think the chart is all telling in terms of work (and doesn't value 'skill honing' like descending). We'll see if this works out in January.
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Old 10-07-19, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Cypress
Twinsies. I spent all summer chasing crowns on Strava and plateaued for about two months, then started losing fitness. Like, holding 200W on flat ground was becoming difficult and my cadence was 7-9 rpm slower than usual. I took some "time off" then started doing easy rides while trying to limit intensity to 10-15 mins tops per ride. Seems to be working.

There's documentation showing interval sessions should only be done 2 times a week, 3 max (probably 2.5 with how old you and I are getting). More than that and fatigue will build up, then you'll have difficulty fully recovering between rides, then the quality of your interval sessions goes out the window. Living in a hilly area makes zone 2 rides rough, so I'll be leaning on Zwift pretty hard this winter.
Yeah, in my case I spent a bunch of time off in the early winter last year because of a knee injury, and I think I was obsessing over getting back to where I was prior to the injury and didn't really let myself chill out. I wound up being mostly unable to go above threshold, and when I did I would pop very quickly. The weird thing is outside of races my 1x efforts were all at or near personal bests, which seems to be another indicator that fatigue was getting in the way of form.
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Old 10-07-19, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Yeah, in my case I spent a bunch of time off in the early winter last year because of a knee injury, and I think I was obsessing over getting back to where I was prior to the injury and didn't really let myself chill out. I wound up being mostly unable to go above threshold, and when I did I would pop very quickly. The weird thing is outside of races my 1x efforts were all at or near personal bests, which seems to be another indicator that fatigue was getting in the way of form.
Twinsies again! I came down with the worst flu I've ever had (put my friend on the hospital) right when I was in my best shape this year. The flu was bad enough that I have a stunted-growth dent in all of my fingernails that's slowly growing out. After a week and a half I tried to rush back to where I was and dug a hole I couldn't get out of.
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Old 10-08-19, 08:56 AM
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Went to take back a KOM last night on a road called "Hylo" and it is every bit as the name implies. It starts with a 90-degree corner straight into one 50-second punch up a 14% grade followed by 5 more super steep upward-trending rollers. This was the first time this year that I've gone all-out and totally dumped everything I had, so it was more of a topography-driven Tabata interval.

Best one-minute power was 738W...not bad, considering there aren't any solid 1-minute sections. I also ended up taking a KOM or two during my warmup for Hylo rd, so that was an odd bonus.
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Old 10-08-19, 11:43 AM
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Wife is out of town on a week-long project, so with kid logistics I think I'll be on Zwift all week. It's not terrible.
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Old 10-08-19, 01:15 PM
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Fiesta Island team time trial practice. Chainless day...everything seemed easy.
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Old 10-08-19, 02:40 PM
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Couple more hot laps on the TT bike this AM, bracketing with a commute to work. I need to figure out a way to stop sliding so fwd on the saddle. Also my arms hurt. Will post some pics in the TT thread later.
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Old 10-09-19, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Couple more hot laps on the TT bike this AM, bracketing with a commute to work. I need to figure out a way to stop sliding so fwd on the saddle. Also my arms hurt. Will post some pics in the TT thread later.
Strength and adaptation. If you have micro adjusting to change the level of your saddle, using a level (iPhone app level or similar) tilt it back just 0.5 - 1.0 degree or less. I have found that I am very sensitive to saddle tilt. Also, more than likely sliding forward is not enough endurance and too much tension in the upper body.

I use the low cadence work on Fiesta in the TT position to work on totally relaxing my upper body, shoulders and neck while focusing on just pedal force. It is like slow practice on the piano. Once you can do it perfectly, totally relaxed, speed comes more easily with less fatigue.

Last edited by Hermes; 10-09-19 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 10-09-19, 09:52 AM
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Thanks, yeah I figured in addition to tweaking a couple things, I just need time. I think I might try some shorter cranks too based on the things that I've read online. Currently riding 170's, I do 172.5 on road and 165 track. And maybe some aerobar extensions with some rise, I want my hands a bit higher.
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Old 10-09-19, 10:03 AM
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I suggest a setup that is easy to ride on the TT bike versus very aero. Once you have S&A in the TT position, you can start the journey to a faster position. My goal is have the same power production in the optimized aero time trial position on my TT bike that I get climbing on my road bike - not so easy to do. It is very easy to lose a lot of power in the TT position.
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Old 10-09-19, 10:17 AM
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Saddle sliding is almost always a fit symptom. Some saddles have integrated textures to help, but can't say they're effective. My Mistica has that texture, it helps, but if you're setup a certain way..........the TT shuffle may be the way of life.

I wonder if it's a function of the intersection of fit, body lever lengths (arms, legs), and the UCI rules. Perfect storm for some bodies and fits.

Either way, I stripped the set screw in the brake for my Propel. POS proprietary set screw. I felt sketchy riding the temporary fix in the fast group ride on Tues so set out early on my own and regrouped for the food truck and beer. About the hardest 25mi solo ride I could muster with some mean short hills and some gravel.

I put the 28mm tire wheelset on the Propel and did that. I was able on that route to get in a lot of longer SS efforts. Usually the group is an on/off switch where I'll average only like 175 to 185w and have a NP of like 230 to 260w. The solo tough route I conjured up was able to average nearly 220w and have a 250w NP. So steadier, and lots more KJ of work.

I almost matched their roadie group ride pace with them having no gravel and less elevation, and me being alone. About a 1/2 mph off.

Food truck was awful. Chewy meat. The beer washed it down though.

I'll start wearing my old cheapy sleeved skinsuit for a fall/spring kit since my Body Paint 3.3 arrives today. Got a super sweet price on Backcountry dumping all of theirs out of stock.

New cockpit for the TT bike arrives...........sometime. Coming from Britain. With some Aerocoach goodies.
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Old 10-10-19, 12:01 PM
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Zwift a lunch. First time on Volcano. Did a 1x20 at 98%. Saw the Volcano KOM, swooped back around for a "1x8" to swipe the "daily" or "hourly" KOM. Not sure how those recycle. But got the jersey.

New 8min power record, all time. 325w. Could have done more, but didn't know how long the KOM would take at the power I was putting out. I was expecting to need longer.

So, 8min at 4.7w/kg. I'll take it.
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Old 10-10-19, 12:41 PM
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TT bike this morning, just up and down some long stretches of road in Clairemont/Kearney Mesa by work.

Pushed the saddle forward and tilted up just a tad and it did wonders for my position - I'm still on the nose when really putting it down, but at least I'm staying on the saddle firmly. It also helps to "suck in" at my stomach/gut area as well as it seems to plant my hips more firmly on the saddle and open me up a bit.

With the new lower front end, I focused on the top of the pedal stroke a bit, coasting backwards and pushing right over the top a bit. It's def. firing muscles near my groin and over the hip that don't typically get used so much. Funny thing, after gassing it a little while later I lightly pulled a muscle near my groin on the right side... I think I may pull the bars up a bit while I'm still adapting. Oh, and the shorter cranks should help too.

Also, I found a sweet used 11 sp Renn disc on Ebay with a low bidding and BIN price, but forgot to snipe it towards the end of the listing (~10:30 AM) as I got caught up at work. Damn!
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Old 10-10-19, 01:08 PM
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I bought a used 10spd Renn disc and just shaved the hub down to fit an 11spd cassette. Works fine.

If that opens up any extra buying opportunities.
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Old 10-10-19, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
I bought a used 10spd Renn disc and just shaved the hub down to fit an 11spd cassette. Works fine.

If that opens up any extra buying opportunities.
Interesting. What kind of tools did you use? Are tolerances very important? I have a machine shop available to me at work so I might be interested in giving this a shot.
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Old 10-10-19, 02:50 PM
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Last night leg strength training and this AM rolled around Fiesta for a couple of laps.
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Old 10-10-19, 03:07 PM
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@TMonk As a suggestion for an initial TT setup, put the aerobar extensions at 75 cm from the centerline of the crankset. Then tilt them with the distance from the extensions level to the top set at 10 cm. Theoretically, tilting the bar is faster. Since UCI allows one morphological exception, you may then move your saddle forward until it is comfortable. I am not sure if there is a forward UCI limit or not.

Then raise the aerobar pads up and out so that you have the most comfortable position. Ride that position for awhile and then you can play around with the height of the pads and distance between the pads and head position to optimize aero.

I suspect your saddle is too low. I have not seen you on the bike but I bet it could even be as much as 2 cm.

When I did my Retul aero fit with ERO, Manton raised my saddle a lot and I thought it was already high. YMMV.
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Old 10-10-19, 03:14 PM
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I did get a free aero "consultation" by a friend's coach (Semper Porro) and he said that same thing - I could stand to raise my saddle a bit. I had it set to the height on my road bike while measured BB to top of saddle along the seat tube. Do TT bikes have shallower ST angles???

EDIT: OK nvm it looks like they're steeper. Is it b/c with the further forward position, the effective leg extension is less? That makes sense to me.
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Old 10-11-19, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Interesting. What kind of tools did you use? Are tolerances very important? I have a machine shop available to me at work so I might be interested in giving this a shot.
There are raised ridges at the base of the splines the cassette slides onto, nearest the base of the hub.

I used a nice machine hand file and got it pretty darn smooth. I just shaved those down the few mm that was needed until I could get the 11spd cassette on, evenly, and lock the lock nut down. Took me about 1/2 hour of filing, checking, etc...

I've swapped hubs on other wheelsets, I didn't this time because I thought I had heard that the RENN disc hubs have something to them different.

Post #11 here:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/S...peed_P5444765/
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Old 10-11-19, 07:44 AM
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Awesome, thank you!!!!
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Old 10-11-19, 10:55 AM
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For others reading that, just be aware you CAN'T do this for spoke wheels. Just discs or wheels running a really really big dinner plate of a bailout gear as your last cog. Otherwise the chain would rub on the spokes. Huge bailout gears this works also because the spoke angle is such that it clears by the time it's on that huge cog.

With a disc wheel, the lenticular shape OR a flat dist it will never rub and have plenty of clearance.

Just so somebody doesn't run their chain into a spoke wheel.
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Old 10-11-19, 01:26 PM
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Another TTT practice on Fiesta. I played around with aerobar pad height and found a sweet spot where I feel amazing riding and the chain disappears. I will take amazing > aero.
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Old 10-12-19, 10:34 AM
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90 min on the MTB this morning, basically TT'd my canyon work commute (and back). SST (by heart rate) on the road and few open trail sections, spiky on the techy and hilly stuff.
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