Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Training Status??? (IV)

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Training Status??? (IV)

Old 12-15-19, 10:38 AM
  #14076  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,154

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1355 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,472 Posts
We road Camp Pendleton and met John Howard and a friend on John's tandem at the start. John said they were going up the first climb easy and then hit it. We should try to stay on his wheel. How did that work? The climb was not easy. After he accelerated, it was really hard to hold the wheel of the tandem and not going to get any easier. I let them go. It was great to see him and a nice day for cycling.
Hermes is offline  
Likes For Hermes:
Old 12-17-19, 12:02 PM
  #14077  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,200

Bikes: 2017 Raleigh RX 1.0, 2018 Specialized Allez

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked 632 Times in 337 Posts
kicking off base 2 today. Since I don't do FTP testing, I bumped myself from 290 to 300 and did a shorter sweet spot workout with 3x10 @ 88, 90, 94% just to get the legs moving after a week of z2 and make sure I wasn't overreaching with the 10w bump. I didn't die so that's a bonus, but when I'm topping off at 280w with the sweet spot plan it makes the 300w target less impressive lol
hubcyclist is offline  
Old 12-17-19, 02:49 PM
  #14078  
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times in 974 Posts
Well, that under/over sucked. Did 2x15min at 98%/109% (2min and 30 second so not 1:1). I guess I needed more time before next workout like that after going hard enough in Sunday's cross race that I puked.

Trying to balance the right number and right number of sets and length of sets is tricky. I think I may go back to 3x12min u/o at about 5w less but get those extra minutes in there.
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 12-17-19, 03:45 PM
  #14079  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,154

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1355 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,472 Posts
Fiesta Island road bike. Low cadence work. Beautiful day.
Hermes is offline  
Likes For Hermes:
Old 12-18-19, 09:53 AM
  #14080  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,276

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked 3,295 Times in 1,728 Posts
Took a 1/2 day at work so I can kick down 4.5 hrs, heading out now. It will be a bit disjointed -

3 hrs first (atm), ending at my LBS, right near my place.
1 hrs to work long
0.5 hrs home later

At the shop I'm picking up a 8/9/10 speed Zipp 950 disc wheel that a senior guy at work gave me for free. The LBS filed the tabs down on the freehub body for me and it is currently fitting an 11 sp 11/23 cassette - sweet. I'll show my appreciation by purchasing a new cassette for it and a tubular as well (Corsa Speed G+ 2.0), and potentially an aero front chain ring.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Likes For TMonk:
Old 12-18-19, 03:55 PM
  #14081  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,276

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked 3,295 Times in 1,728 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes
Fiesta Island road bike. Low cadence work. Beautiful day.
Indeed it was. What times were you out there? I did a SST "hot lap" at around 9:00 and then again at ~11:15 or so.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 12-18-19, 03:56 PM
  #14082  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,276

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked 3,295 Times in 1,728 Posts
Originally Posted by hubcyclist
Since I don't do FTP testing
why not? (asking out of curiosity)
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 12-18-19, 04:08 PM
  #14083  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,200

Bikes: 2017 Raleigh RX 1.0, 2018 Specialized Allez

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 471 Post(s)
Liked 632 Times in 337 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk
why not? (asking out of curiosity)
I've just found that ramp tests that are popular these days consistently give me an FTP lower than the workouts I have completed. And I just don't have the mental will to do 20mins lol I think

Ultimately I'm not going to experience huge shifts in my FTP between phases so I've done pretty well guesstimating where I should be based on what I've been able to do. That said I tried a sweet spot workout today based on 300 and it was bit of a reach (HR was more in threshold zone than it should be) so I'll be going with 295.
hubcyclist is offline  
Old 12-18-19, 04:10 PM
  #14084  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,154

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1355 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,472 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk
Indeed it was. What times were you out there? I did a SST "hot lap" at around 9:00 and then again at ~11:15 or so.
Garmin says I started at 10:25 AM. We must have just missed each other or on the island but opposite sides.

Last edited by Hermes; 12-18-19 at 05:17 PM.
Hermes is offline  
Old 12-18-19, 04:14 PM
  #14085  
Globo Gym lifetime member
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redmond, Oregon
Posts: 5,204

Bikes: Fast ones

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked 614 Times in 306 Posts
Originally Posted by hubcyclist
I've just found that ramp tests that are popular these days consistently give me an FTP lower than the workouts I have completed. And I just don't have the mental will to do 20mins lol I think

Ultimately I'm not going to experience huge shifts in my FTP between phases so I've done pretty well guesstimating where I should be based on what I've been able to do. That said I tried a sweet spot workout today based on 300 and it was bit of a reach (HR was more in threshold zone than it should be) so I'll be going with 295.
The 20-min test isn't too bad. It's minutes 6 through 14 that suck. By 6 mins you've pretty much settled into your pace after going to hard out of the gate, then at 14 you start to empty the tank. The 8 mins in the middle are just "hard but not too hard but still pretty damn hard" and seem to take forever.
__________________
Cypress is offline  
Old 12-19-19, 11:07 PM
  #14086  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,154

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1355 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,472 Posts
Fiesta Island 20K TTT.
Hermes is offline  
Likes For Hermes:
Old 12-20-19, 11:00 AM
  #14087  
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times in 974 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes
Fiesta Island 20K TTT.
That has to be soooo much fun.

Did a Zwift ITT last night, power was easily down 25w from roadie position. Still. Despite riding it once a week nowadays. I crawled off the bike and immediately got a calf attack and charlie horse. Mother effer. But, my fan at home versus the gym sucks. I was boiling despite winter time home thermostat settings. So, lets say minus 10w right there. I'm also on a fluid with a power meter so I can't really hit the little rollers to hold speed other than guessing.

But, 240w on the tt bike indoors for 40min. That's 25w more than my 20ish minute power on it last year. I'll take it. It's something.

Christmas eve Tuesday weather looks amazing. Low wind, mild. I'm thinking mid-day outdoor 10mi attempt or a festive group ride.
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 12-20-19, 11:13 AM
  #14088  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,154

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1355 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,472 Posts
The Fiesta TTTs are really fun to do. We are on the race course so we can optimize the perfect lap. We are on time trial bikes so we work on power in the TT position and there is an element of over / under when making exchanges. There is the opportunity to work on drafting and bike handling skills on the TT bike. And you have a partner/partners so share the suffering. And we go pretty fast and time seems to fly by because there is always something to focus on besides suffering. It is all good.

Last edited by Hermes; 12-20-19 at 11:16 AM.
Hermes is offline  
Likes For Hermes:
Old 12-20-19, 03:37 PM
  #14089  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,276

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked 3,295 Times in 1,728 Posts
We plan to go for the 20k (and later) 40k TTT course records at Fiesta Island in 2020. According to Kevin (our strongest horse) the 20k will be easy, but the 40k... tough. We got the Fiesta Island 1-lap Strava KOM (30.8 MPH for 7:56) last year training for TTT states, and the entire 40k course record isn't much slower...
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 12-20-19, 04:41 PM
  #14090  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,154

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1355 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,472 Posts
Originally Posted by TMonk
We plan to go for the 20k (and later) 40k TTT course records at Fiesta Island in 2020. According to Kevin (our strongest horse) the 20k will be easy, but the 40k... tough. We got the Fiesta Island 1-lap Strava KOM (30.8 MPH for 7:56) last year training for TTT states, and the entire 40k course record isn't much slower...
At my CdA, I need approximately 425 watts decked out in the fastest stuff I own to generate 30.8 mph OTF.
Hermes is offline  
Likes For Hermes:
Old 12-20-19, 04:59 PM
  #14091  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,276

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked 3,295 Times in 1,728 Posts
Well we certainly were in fast stuff and our turns were about that hard. We planned on doing a full 40k mock TTT, but one of our guys flatted a tubular, so the rest of us (three) were like: "eff it, let's go all out 1 lap and get this KOM"
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Likes For TMonk:
Old 12-20-19, 07:59 PM
  #14092  
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 14,276

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2719 Post(s)
Liked 3,295 Times in 1,728 Posts
Forecasted to be raining on and off all week next week. WTF San Diego, I'm supposed to be putting in big volume! We'll see what happens - I suspect it will be a mix of trainer and some opportunistic road riding with a bit of wetness here and there. Most likely reduced volume (grrrrr).
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 12-21-19, 08:09 AM
  #14093  
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times in 974 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes
At my CdA, I need approximately 425 watts decked out in the fastest stuff I own to generate 30.8 mph OTF.
I get the following for me:
82kg bike plus rider
1.181 kg/m3 air density
CRR of .0028 for Corsa speeds on a good road
CdA guess from my data of around .235, Felt DA with Flo 60/90, cyclocross or cheap skinsuit, road helmet

Comes to 395w for 30.8mph

What did you figure your CdA was from testing you had done?
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 12-21-19, 09:43 AM
  #14094  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,154

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1355 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,472 Posts
If I use your Rho and Crr, I get 408 watts. I use a 2% drive train loss and 173 pounds of rider weight plus equipment. My tested CdA at the indoor track by ERO with a Dolan DF3, a double lenticular disc and Shimano Pro aero pursuit bars, UK quasi custom skin suit and Giro Selector aero helmet and a perfectly turtled head was .2375. It is questionable whether I could get that low of a CdA on my Cervelo TT bike with a disc /trispoke setup at Fiesta. Also, even with a great glue job and perfectly round Vitorria Corsa EVO CS tubulars, I think the Crr would be higher on Fiesta and the road surface is pretty good. I could use R Chung's method and measure Crr and plot a curve of Crr v Tire Pressure for my tire setup. I think you know that professional teams optimize tire pressure for the road surface for TTs in grand tours.

It is very clear that all this detail matters for this discipline. Even at 400 watts of power, 10 watts matters...a lot.
Hermes is offline  
Old 12-21-19, 12:12 PM
  #14095  
out walking the earth
Thread Starter
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,441
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 342 Posts
-2 when I woke up. 3 hours, zone 3. Been a bit under the weather so it was nice to pound through it and feel good.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 12-21-19, 01:30 PM
  #14096  
Globo Gym lifetime member
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redmond, Oregon
Posts: 5,204

Bikes: Fast ones

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked 614 Times in 306 Posts
Currently laying waste to Watopia with TheKillerPenguin
__________________
Cypress is offline  
Old 12-21-19, 01:59 PM
  #14097  
Globo Gym lifetime member
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redmond, Oregon
Posts: 5,204

Bikes: Fast ones

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked 614 Times in 306 Posts
Correction: I'm doing sweet spots as he's taking the volcano jersey 65 MILES INTO A ZWIFT RIDE.
__________________
Cypress is offline  
Likes For Cypress:
Old 12-21-19, 03:10 PM
  #14098  
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
I peak for xmas
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Likes For TheKillerPenguin:
Old 12-21-19, 03:25 PM
  #14099  
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times in 974 Posts
I got that Volcano KOM on a slow day one time and set a PR for that power duration. Couldn't have been very strong people online at the time for me to bag it, lol.

Took the TT bike out bundled up for some slow riding and a couple KOM attempts. One victory, one 3 way tie, one 2nd place OA. However, hit up road bike like power for the duration of the KOM efforts. 700w for 20sec and 500w for a minute. That one with that effort was good for a 2nd. Womp womp, not favorable wind today. Very light and hurting.

Some kids riding their bikes up the sidewalk as I was trying for it went "holy ******g ****" as I went flying past easily breaking the speed limit. It's hard as hell to tuck your head holding 500w. **** that hurts.

Also felt like crap. Still draining from the nose to the wrong places while riding and feeling sick after some hard efforts as it all wants to come back out any way it can afterwards. Maybe some easier stuff this coming week, lots of tempo and SS. Maybe coliseum laps Christmas eve at a nice 200w tempo.
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 12-21-19, 03:34 PM
  #14100  
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
Originally Posted by Cypress
Correction: I'm doing sweet spots as he's taking the volcano jersey 65 MILES INTO A ZWIFT RIDE.
Absolute madlad, that one.
furiousferret is offline  
Likes For furiousferret:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.