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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 01-22-20, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress
20-min test went as expected. Went too hard at first, then settled in for about 8 mins, then power started to slightly decline, then the last 2 mins was a ramp into oblivion.

20-min power: 353W
FTP: 336W

Current weight: 159 lb

Minus the weight, those are bummer numbers for me, BUT it's January. I have never had good numbers this time of the year, so whatevs.
You should be able to do some substantial damage with those kind of numbers.
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Old 01-22-20, 10:44 AM
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for cmh here's some links for you https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/a...nd-decoupling/
https://tailwind-coaching.com/2017/0...ic-decoupling/
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Old 01-22-20, 11:14 AM
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There was a discussion in Training and Nutrition on cardiac drift and decoupling. Some argue that the phenomenon is indicative of fitness and can be used as a training tool. I posted some counterpoint argument from coaches / physiologists that say that decoupling is not indicative of anything other than heart stroke volume decreasing over time due to heat and dehydration.

I lump decoupling and drift into the basket of all that is heart rate - that is a tertiary measurement of aerobic performance that is highly affected by many variables too numerous to count.
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Old 01-22-20, 11:32 AM
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Track workout at VSC last night with coach. 4x10’ efforts pursuit position 10’ RBI. The first 2’ was 120% FTP and then 8’ of FTP.

The 2’ was not so bad other than the following 8’ felt like total crap with minimum air. It has been a while since I did 10 minutes of FTP + on fixed gear at VSC in the TT position. One does not realize how much rest one gets in a time trial on a geared bike compared to fixed gear on the track. And my legs were total crap after skiing and 9 days off the bike.
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Old 01-22-20, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
There was a discussion in Training and Nutrition on cardiac drift and decoupling. Some argue that the phenomenon is indicative of fitness and can be used as a training tool. I posted some counterpoint argument from coaches / physiologists that say that decoupling is not indicative of anything other than heart stroke volume decreasing over time due to heat and dehydration.

I lump decoupling and drift into the basket of all that is heart rate - that is a tertiary measurement of aerobic performance that is highly affected by many variables too numerous to count.
Yeah, there was that one dude a while back that made this drift thing a cornerstone of his training "plans" it was so ridiculous and made me never want to post again with the level of training quackery some people try to push on the forums. I think it's a neat data point with limited usage. For my 4hr ride, it was probably stuff like hydration that was affecting me, I wasn't overly thirsty but I had 2 water bottles over 4hrs. I've been doing sweet spot base since mid-Nov and I'd say I'm pretty aerobically fit.

Another metric that I use in a limited capacity and maybe more useful, is aerobic efficiency, if my power:HR appears to improve over time then it might be a sign that I can bump up my targets.

But yeah, that decoupling topic was a trainwreck
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Old 01-22-20, 12:05 PM
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Yeah. That poster picked up his toys and went home. There is a lot of odd stuff in T&N but odd is not against forum rules per se. And experts with credentials argue over different training modalities and supporting research. I just ride these things.
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Old 01-22-20, 03:32 PM
  #14207  
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Got it - thanks. I have seen this before as aerobic drift, just forgot about it. And I find the term 'aerobic decoupling' to be kind of misleading compared to 'aerobic drift'. I've never actually measured this, but it does seem like it could be a useful secondary measure.
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Old 01-22-20, 03:35 PM
  #14208  
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Originally Posted by Cypress
20-min test went as expected. Went too hard at first, then settled in for about 8 mins, then power started to slightly decline, then the last 2 mins was a ramp into oblivion.

20-min power: 353W
FTP: 336W

Current weight: 159 lb

Minus the weight, those are bummer numbers for me, BUT it's January. I have never had good numbers this time of the year, so whatevs.
Those would be stellar numbers for many of us. Nice job.
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Old 01-22-20, 04:11 PM
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10 days in a row on the bike; its a start. Last year between January to mid November I only had 5 days off.

People freak out all the time about rest days, etc. and I've been lectured several times about how important it is. Of course they're too busy to actually read my training log, they may gloss over it and ignore the TSS values, etc. Yes, studies say you need rest, and you can't go full gas all the time. The thing is, the most important thing in training is consistency. When riding your bike is as mandatory as brushing your teeth everything else falls in place. You can ride everyday, provided some are under 40 TSS (and many of mine are under 25).

All those guys that lecture me about riding too much have always had training lapses. You take a day off, decide that day you're going to knit a quilt, then suddenly your knitting 3 hours a day and haven't ridden in a week.
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Old 01-22-20, 08:02 PM
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Rode 7.5 hours last week, been getting more regular on Zwift and now that we're getting into a routine with the baby it's getting a lot easier. Been getting 3-4 short lifting sessions per week. Im aiming for 2 leg workouts per week and upper body for the rest, with emphasis on core as I've neglected that for too long. Im at 4.5 for this week so far.

The numbers are crap but that's what I get for taking 5 months mostly off! I did 5 min efforts today at my previous 1 hour power and it hurt

Hopefully I can keep it going in a couple weeks when I'm back at work! Im getting used to consistently waking up early for once in my life so I think I can make early rides/ commutes work.
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Old 01-23-20, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret
10 days in a row on the bike; its a start. Last year between January to mid November I only had 5 days off.

People freak out all the time about rest days, etc. and I've been lectured several times about how important it is. Of course they're too busy to actually read my training log, they may gloss over it and ignore the TSS values, etc. Yes, studies say you need rest, and you can't go full gas all the time. The thing is, the most important thing in training is consistency. When riding your bike is as mandatory as brushing your teeth everything else falls in place. You can ride everyday, provided some are under 40 TSS (and many of mine are under 25).

All those guys that lecture me about riding too much have always had training lapses. You take a day off, decide that day you're going to knit a quilt, then suddenly your knitting 3 hours a day and haven't ridden in a week.
Mondays are my rest days. I take them off. I like not having to ride all the time. BUT, my coach does have an optional 1-hour recovery ride on those days. So I could ride every day if I really wanted to. Riding everyday isn't a big deal if you make sure to moderate your load. I know one guy who does 3-5 hour recovery rides on his rest days. I'm sorry, but that is not a recovery ride.
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Old 01-23-20, 12:55 PM
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Itís getting real. Did road today as forgot my fit coordinates and tape measure for the trainer.

First ever finishing all 3 10min sets at that power. Usually bonked set three.

Also, HR was lower finishing set three than when I was bonking it. Wooot wooot.

Pretty sure I top 5 or 10 both Leith and Box hill in Zwift on that workout. Not forever, the current board.

Got enough drops for a faster TT bike now in Zwift.
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Old 01-23-20, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Itís getting real. Did road today as forgot my fit coordinates and tape measure for the trainer.

First ever finishing all 3 10min sets at that power. Usually bonked set three.

Also, HR was lower finishing set three than when I was bonking it. Wooot wooot.

Pretty sure I top 5 or 10 both Leith and Box hill in Zwift on that workout. Not forever, the current board.

Got enough drops for a faster TT bike now in Zwift.
I am not a Zwifter so I do not understand how one gets a faster TT bike in Zwift.

Also, are you sure you are bonking? This is an honest question because, most of us have 2000 calories of glycogen with 1600 in our muscles and 400 in our liver. So even if you start with less, you have more than enough to do a 3x10 even at 100% glycogen. I do not hear of racers bonking in a 40 km time trial for example.

It seems like you have something else going on that is depleting your liver glycogen if you are truly bonking.
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Old 01-23-20, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
I am not a Zwifter so I do not understand how one gets a faster TT bike in Zwift.

Also, are you sure you are bonking? This is an honest question because, most of us have 2000 calories of glycogen with 1600 in our muscles and 400 in our liver. So even if you start with less, you have more than enough to do a 3x10 even at 100% glycogen. I do not hear of racers bonking in a 40 km time trial for example.

It seems like you have something else going on that is depleting your liver glycogen if you are truly bonking.
Probably poor word choice.

Looking at the failed attempts of the workout from earlier December my HR would end of 2nd set enter aerobic capacity and get there early 3rd set. So probably just over-estimating my percentage of ftp for the power.

Pretty sure I was to generous with 95% of 20min whereas I am not a 95% capable person. Typically more like 92%. Guess that 3% matters a lot at the limit.

I fixed my math and expectations to nail workouts and keep them challenging instead of stretching the goal so much you wonít ever nail the sets.

Also I have always had a high contribution of anaerobic. Itís disproportionately better than my ďlongĒ aerobic engine. Or it seems that way.
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Old 01-23-20, 02:36 PM
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After two lackluster two days of training, I got up early and hit 3.25 hrs of zone 3 AP before work. I feel great! Tired, but good.

Commute home later,
off day tomorrow,
4-5 hrs with some group ride hammering on Sat,
2 hrs w road warmup and 2x20' on Fiesta after. Going to do the first one with training setup then go to the car, swap out all the fast bits (wheels/SS/helmet/shoe coverrs) and see how much farther I go on the second.
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Old 01-23-20, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
I am not a Zwifter so I do not understand how one gets a faster TT bike in Zwift.
You earn points and can unlock different bikes, wheels, and other silly stuff like socks. Some of it makes you go faster in-game.
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Old 01-23-20, 08:51 PM
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Yup, totally silly but keeps me more engaged than the wall.

I figure if Iím within a few seconds to minute of a top ten Zwift leaderboard I can hammer out an interval.

Plus if weather is **** can get somewhat realistic feedback on TT pacing a route and try stuff. The titans grove rollers are good for that.

FWIW I still go outside in the cold. TT ride in skinsuit with base layer at 35 deg on Wednesday. No leg warmers or other bib. Latex gloves under skintight cutproof gloves ftw.
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Old 01-24-20, 09:22 AM
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Track workout last night with coach. Shorter but harder version of Tuesday. 2 sets of (4x(2laps above pursuit pace, 4 laps FTP) 3’ RBI)) 10’ rest between sets. You guys should try these “over / on” versus over / under.

My legs felt great and my breathing amazing. So much oxygen. Anyway, I did a couple of 400 watt 500 meters that would normally leave me gasping for air and I was able to transition to FTP without a problem. Who knew?
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Old 01-25-20, 05:50 PM
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4.5hrs today, 188tss 3k kJ on the trainer. If I wasnít having to get out of the saddle and fidget it would be a lot more tolerable but it wasnít bad. 6% aerobic decoupling. Not sure if Iíll do the prescribed sweet spot workout tomorrow, although I should be good for it

shall I try for 5hrs next weekend? Lol
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Old 01-25-20, 10:12 PM
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What's a bike? I've seriously been lacking on bike training. Haven't ridden outside in months and doing 1 trainer ride a week. Lots of strength work and some skiing.

I've been sick on and off the last two months. Seriously ill since beginning of January. It blows. I'm towards the end of 21 days of antibiotics and steroids since I'm just not getting better. Thought I was on the up and up at the beginning of this week. Nope, bed ridden for two days with a stomach thing and my sinus are all but ****ed again.

Needless to say it's been a trying start to 2020 for me. Started Grad school, work has been really busy and some relationship stuff that went south for me. All of that plus being sick and stuck inside piled on with the negative psychological effects of the prednisone and man.. I've been a wreck. It'll all get better.

My first xc ski race of the year is next weekend. I have no fitness and no expectations. I'm changing my mindset and using it as a weekend away from home with friends. Really just skiing to finish.
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Old 01-26-20, 12:08 PM
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Awesome 30mi on the TT bike. Out of town is hilly, against the wind mostly, and has some unfortunate stops at the bottom of hills.

But, during the ride on the faster part I managed 30mph for 6min and 26 for almost 20min on rolling terrain at tempo. Iím assuming taking advantage of the wind a good bit. But thereís a few rollers too. Bagged a KOM and a top 10 at temporary. Not windy at all. Just good position and focus on the bike.

It was fun. I was freaking moving. Fixed a pad width coordinate I screwed up when messing around a week or two back....helllllooo stability.

This was all with winter road kit. No fancy aero kit.
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Old 01-26-20, 12:15 PM
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Raced Cal Aggie M45 yesterday. My whole goal was to stay attached and finish with the main group. Managed to do that, so yay me.

I will say that racing with minimum matches is making me more attentive and efficient. Hopefully when the fitness comes back, I’ll be able to use those watts better.
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Old 01-26-20, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
Raced Cal Aggie M45 yesterday. My whole goal was to stay attached and finish with the main group. Managed to do that, so yay me.

I will say that racing with minimum matches is making me more attentive and efficient. Hopefully when the fitness comes back, Iíll be able to use those watts better.
Racing to survive can be fun. An expensive way to gain fitness but way more fun. It's good to go back to the basics sometimes. It'll make you a better racer in July!

I'm Slowly but steadily reengaging. Last night went for a real easy ski tour with a buddy. Got a bit lost and ended up in some sketchy terrain, but the snow is stable right now, so wasnt at a high risk.

Lifted and climbed today. 3x8 at 225 on deadlift, which I'm happy with after the week I've had. Really wanted to go xc ski but think one more day without aerobic intensity will be the best for my illness.
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Old 01-27-20, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6
Racing to survive can be fun. An expensive way to gain fitness but way more fun. It's good to go back to the basics sometimes. It'll make you a better racer in July!

I'm Slowly but steadily reengaging. Last night went for a real easy ski tour with a buddy. Got a bit lost and ended up in some sketchy terrain, but the snow is stable right now, so wasnt at a high risk.

Lifted and climbed today. 3x8 at 225 on deadlift, which I'm happy with after the week I've had. Really wanted to go xc ski but think one more day without aerobic intensity will be the best for my illness.
Hah. I guess I paid $1/min for 40 min of over/unders.
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Old 01-27-20, 11:34 AM
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Had a great vacation, then came home and immediately came down with something I must have caught while traveling. It has been in my chest so I've been twiddling my thumbs. Think I should be able to get back to it tomorrow though, and I was reasonably active while on vacation so not all is lost.

Why's it always gotta be like that? Can't ever get sick at a convenient time.
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