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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 08-23-20, 08:11 PM
  #15226  
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Originally Posted by big john
That's interesting. So you don't look at the power until a certain point and then just to see if it's where you feel it might be? Did I ask that right?
I taped over my Garmin's display and looked at the file post-ride, compared it to how I felt when I was doing the effort. I'll probably take a hybrid approach on this for a while, ride with data sometimes and other times ride without.
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Old 08-23-20, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
That's interesting. So you don't look at the power until a certain point and then just to see if it's where you feel it might be? Did I ask that right?
Something like this (34 seconds):
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Old 08-23-20, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret
Something like this (34 seconds):
https://youtu.be/KuKqcfO31is?t=34
The old "flying by the seat of your pants" theory?
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Old 08-24-20, 06:07 AM
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Trainerroad (on the desktop version, not yet rolled out to mobile) has given users the ability to hide HR, which for me a big thing because I can easily let that HR number get in my head, esp if it's a day where it's warmer and my HR is higher than usual for an effort. Definitely something to be said about going numberless so that stuff doesn't psych you out. Zwift should give folks the ability to do that as well, my results get excluded from zwiftpower because I don't keep my HR displayed in zwift.
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Old 08-24-20, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
I've been toying around with not using power on rides just to see what happens, because I think I've gotten used to being able to do x watts for y minutes and when I get close to what I know my PB numbers are I subconsciously bug out. The first couple of rides doing this seem to indicate that this is the case. RPE is significantly lower for a given wattage than I would have thought, especially uphill.
I struggled in races until I taped over my computer. Once I didn't know how hard I was going, I was able to make it through races without falling off the back.
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Old 08-24-20, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
I struggled in races until I taped over my computer. Once I didn't know how hard I was going, I was able to make it through races without falling off the back.
So you would let off and get dropped because you thought the numbers were too high?
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Old 08-24-20, 07:42 AM
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Well, my TT bike ride this weekend was blind. The buttons on the Wahoo started peeling off. Then, of course it rains on me hard in a ride last week. I thought it was still fine, wrong. During the TT ride, nothing but the LEDs working and audible chirps for my radar. No power, no map, nada. I know my way, so made my own route by memory.

Quarq said 210w for about 2 hours. Averaged 23mph with about 50 feet per mile for 30 miles of the 40ish. Getting out of town and back into town there are slow ups and stops that kill the pace. 10miles of neutral wind but net loss of 100 feet netted over 25mph. Nice, fun. Pavement is smoother out that way than down east. So, faster.

Gave the Wahoo a rice bath when I got home. Road ride Sunday for an hour for 20mi and it's working again! Yah! It's in the rice bath again now just to be sure.

I'm going to do a full kit TT ride this week. Maybe at pace, maybe not. Either way, I want to feel that extra mph or so of the full 90/disc combo and skinsuit/helmet combo. Due west wind 3 days in a row means a couple segments I've had my eye on are possible. Even maybe able to steal some candy from the cat 1/2/3 riders who destroyed the local loop recently. Eat the elephant a bite at a time.
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Old 08-24-20, 08:50 AM
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You guys ever doubt your training towards the end of a training block when work outs gets hard to complete, sleep suffers, legs feel tired, etc? I swear my brain tells me "welp, I over did it this time, we're gonna be sick or get injured I just know it", then a recovery week later I am setting PR's and recovery between rides is awesome again. If it weren't for a plan and a coach I would have talked myself out of a lot of rides the last couple of months.
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Old 08-25-20, 11:14 AM
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Z race this morning, tour de MAAP "A's" with 270 starters, although about half were B's according to Zwift Power. Three sisters route featuring the Epic KOM (~20 min climb) which of course split things up a lot.

I got like 33rd or something. good for ~3.6 w/kg (238 w) for 90 minutes. Got dropped from my groupetto going up the Volcano KOM near the end, damn. But like nobody was pulling after the Epic KOM, it was pathetic. I guess I know what they were saving it for!
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Old 08-25-20, 11:34 AM
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I did a workout called English +5 on trainerroad, which is 3 sets of 7x80sec on at 120%, 40sec off, followed by some endurance. I did a tour de MAAP shorter group ride while on ERG mode, which for me always means I get near the front to start and rapidly drop back during rest lol. I somehow got the green jersey in Yorkshire after the event and other people dropped off, and my Garmin estimates my vo2 to be 72. This is the last week of short power build, so I'm excited to finish strongly.
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Old 08-26-20, 08:56 AM
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Went after a little local neighborhood TT segment last night. Really hilly and technical. I don't have the bumps memorized there so couldn't turn it up to 11.

I got it by 1:30 faster though for an 11min segment. I know the other guy doesn't do TT, so was road, but on this one the TT only really came in handy for a little bit of flat and downhill. There were speed humps causing me to come up, and the ascending the hills at slow speed. I also lost about a good 20 seconds due to a car making a freaking u-turn in my way.

Was a good effort. Felt good. Really need some skateboard deck tape on my base bar handles though.
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Old 08-26-20, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Went after a little local neighborhood TT segment last night. Really hilly and technical. I don't have the bumps memorized there so couldn't turn it up to 11.

I got it by 1:30 faster though for an 11min segment. I know the other guy doesn't do TT, so was road, but on this one the TT only really came in handy for a little bit of flat and downhill. There were speed humps causing me to come up, and the ascending the hills at slow speed. I also lost about a good 20 seconds due to a car making a freaking u-turn in my way.

Was a good effort. Felt good. Really need some skateboard deck tape on my base bar handles though.
I'll be honest, your taking segments on a TT bike would trigger the sh*t out of me. Haven't really see an epidemic of people going after segments on TT bikes in my neck of the woods. I guess if you go after segments that aren't climbs you'd have to accept that people are going to reach for the TT bike.
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Old 08-27-20, 12:08 AM
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Speaking of TT’s, our local MTB and CX promoter has put together a dirt TT series. First one tonight. I beat my kid and managed to finish mid table in my category, which was a double win. I still don’t have a mtb, so I did it on my cross bike. Helped on the ups, but not so much on the downs. Just can’t bomb the descents like those full suspension bikes.
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Old 08-27-20, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Yep
I'll be honest, your taking segments on a TT bike would trigger the sh*t out of me. Haven't really see an epidemic of people going after segments on TT bikes in my neck of the woods. I guess if you go after segments that aren't climbs you'd have to accept that people are going to reach for the TT bike.
At first for the flatter stuff I loathed the group segment grab. But, folks are right. If you want to try to make it fair, Strava becomes a more messed up amalgamation of race categories than combining every possible USAC race group thinkable.

Like gravel segments that aren't pan flat and are technical. Unfair to let 29'er mountain bikes grab segments? They're for sure faster on some gravel near me. What about audax gravel bikes with aero extensions? Then there's sections of the gravel with, well, no gravel. It's hardpan for a couple miles. No road bikes for that section, only bikes with knobbies? Which knobbies? For mtb......mtb wheel size I would think would matter a lot. So segments for rigid vs full suspension vs 29'er, etc.? Then the whole group effort thing also. You can road bike to your heart's content solo, but a racer group is going to gang your bottom on that segment.

After folks brought that to my attention about Strava, I have the opinion that I used to when we drag raced cars............run whatcha brung. Coulda shoulda woulda doesn't mean anything.

In the end, Strava resembles team time trial, individual time trial, and hill climb. The same strategies apply.

IMO, it's also really short sighted when people say "if only I had xyz bike". Well, if you did, without putting in all the work that other person has.........you'd suck on that bike. For the flat stuff..........that's where TT and tri bike people often spend their most time riding. What are they to do? Ignore the segments? I could go buy a 29er tomorrow and still wouldn't be able to bag those gravel segments.

The equipment difference matters, but there's no way to capitalize on it if you don't work with it. It's also impossible to analyze every possible equipment advantage. I've seen road bike riders try to draft cars before.

Strava is full of "triggers". Road races passing through town. Gaimon getting a lead out on a short segment by a local stud. Tailwind enviro-doping segments. Etc.....Just gotta find your "niche" and be happy working within it.
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Old 08-27-20, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Yep
I'll be honest, your taking segments on a TT bike would trigger the sh*t out of me. Haven't really see an epidemic of people going after segments on TT bikes in my neck of the woods. I guess if you go after segments that aren't climbs you'd have to accept that people are going to reach for the TT bike.
Do you have a TT bike? Lately we've taken some more prestigious Strava segments (Fiesta Island long and short) with our TTT squad. It's fun. A couple weeks ago we snabbed FI short lap (2.5 mi) with a 4:36 ride at 32.5 MPH
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Old 08-27-20, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Do you have a TT bike? Lately we've taken some more prestigious Strava segments (Fiesta Island long and short) with our TTT squad. It's fun. A couple weeks ago we snabbed FI short lap (2.5 mi) with a 4:36 ride at 32.5 MPH
Awesome! That's moving out.

One I got recently included some 10 second roller pimple sized hills and I averaged 32.6 for about a mile. No tail wind. Pretty slick position I guess. It took about 420w to do it.

I could not hold that much for any longer though whatsoever. So, 2.5 miles I'd be down a good bit on power versus a single mile. I should find and try one in that IP distance just to see.
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Old 08-27-20, 09:34 AM
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Yeah that last one is just about 4k for an IP/TP distance. Crazy to think that world class TP teams can do 60 KPH for that duration from a standing start . It's on an indoor wooden track, but still, monster watts.
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Old 08-27-20, 09:37 AM
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Final workout of a progression, today was 5x11min, 30sec starts at 150% then settled on 95% for 10min. Timed this to ride during a MAAP stage ride, got off quickly to first place with my massive 30sec power and even had a gap lol but once ERG settled into 95% I got brought back. By the time all was said and done I was like 40/100
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Old 08-30-20, 02:30 PM
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Couple hours at 215AP, maybe a hair more for NP on the TT bike. About 50ft/mi and 22.5mph avg on the TT bike. Went early, so pretty good on the signs/lights and traffic.

Had a 20min in there at 25mph and an hour at 23.5.

I rode road kit but threw on the HED disc and 9+. Gotta learn to ride it. Wasn't windy yet though, too early I guess. That Giant aero road helmet is junk for aero on this bike. I don't think it's made to be ridden at that head position like my TT helmet is. I could hear all sorts of noise today from it (meaning, slow). It isn't that loud riding in a road position.

Was fast, was fun.
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Old 08-30-20, 03:29 PM
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7.5 hours ~ 300 TSS including 4x20k TTTs on Fiesta Island. Fun week with good weather and fast conditions. Next week will be more high end short duration efforts.
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Old 08-30-20, 11:10 PM
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6 hr ~107 mi ride yesterday with some climbing, 60 min Zwift group ride this morning and 45 min MTB jaunt this evening. Off season mode now engaged, including 5 days off the bike surrounding labor day when we will be camping and hiking in Kern then Sequoia NP.

I'm going to make a point of not doing any long rides for the next 6 weeks or so. Or at least that's what I tell myself. I'll probably continue doing the Th night WTRL TTT series on Zwift with my team (so fun) and maybe a Z race by myself here and there, but prob not much outside of that.

Time to reset my body and my motivation. Hopefully there's a 2021 racing season. Not sure what it will look like. but I will be training for it in a couple months.

I do want to upgrade my TT bike situation going into next year. My wife is in board at some level, actual expenditures TBD. Some electronic shifting and new bars are in order, maybe a new frame to get me lower, the list goes on...
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Old 08-31-20, 10:15 AM
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Did a power test up Alpe du Zwift using Kolie Moore's protocol: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/t...ing-protocols/

Avg for the 49:30 minutes was only 10w under my best ever (last year's team camp, 55 minute climb) and I did a hard negative split. I just kept having another gear, to the point where I was worried my power meter was reading high. I verified it afterwards by checking my Kickr power against the Quarq side by side, so I guess the rest week had me feeling extra fresh. I'm pretty pleased with that considering this is my first real structured block since last summer. I've been pretty consistent these past 6 weeks though, more so than usual. Hopefully the next 6 weeks gives me a similar boost!
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Old 08-31-20, 06:34 PM
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nice dude! you got some serious dad watts coming through!!!
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Old 09-01-20, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
At first for the flatter stuff I loathed the group segment grab. But, folks are right. If you want to try to make it fair, Strava becomes a more messed up amalgamation of race categories than combining every possible USAC race group thinkable.

Like gravel segments that aren't pan flat and are technical. Unfair to let 29'er mountain bikes grab segments? They're for sure faster on some gravel near me. What about audax gravel bikes with aero extensions? Then there's sections of the gravel with, well, no gravel. It's hardpan for a couple miles. No road bikes for that section, only bikes with knobbies? Which knobbies? For mtb......mtb wheel size I would think would matter a lot. So segments for rigid vs full suspension vs 29'er, etc.? Then the whole group effort thing also. You can road bike to your heart's content solo, but a racer group is going to gang your bottom on that segment.

After folks brought that to my attention about Strava, I have the opinion that I used to when we drag raced cars............run whatcha brung. Coulda shoulda woulda doesn't mean anything.

In the end, Strava resembles team time trial, individual time trial, and hill climb. The same strategies apply.

IMO, it's also really short sighted when people say "if only I had xyz bike". Well, if you did, without putting in all the work that other person has.........you'd suck on that bike. For the flat stuff..........that's where TT and tri bike people often spend their most time riding. What are they to do? Ignore the segments? I could go buy a 29er tomorrow and still wouldn't be able to bag those gravel segments.

The equipment difference matters, but there's no way to capitalize on it if you don't work with it. It's also impossible to analyze every possible equipment advantage. I've seen road bike riders try to draft cars before.

Strava is full of "triggers". Road races passing through town. Gaimon getting a lead out on a short segment by a local stud. Tailwind enviro-doping segments. Etc.....Just gotta find your "niche" and be happy working within it.
Sorry I took so long coming back to this. I think you laid it out pretty well. For me, it's a case of finding segments that are owned by local heros who I think maybe on a good day I could get the better of. If I'm sure it's a pro or set on a TT bike, I move on.
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Old 09-01-20, 02:21 PM
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Fiesta TT bike 3x10 minute 30 on 30 off. One aspect of my riding on the TT and road bikes is that over the years, I have improved on generating power on flat terrain - especially downwind.

My flat terrain power generation on the TT bike is approaching my climbing power generation.
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