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Am I physically ready to attempt my first cat 5 crit?

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Am I physically ready to attempt my first cat 5 crit?

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Old 08-31-15, 03:16 PM
  #101  
therhodeo
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Can I bench press enough to play football?
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Old 08-31-15, 05:23 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
you shift weight in a flat corner too. I feel in general you are really overestimating any difference.
Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
how much less weight is on the bike tires on corner on a smooth grade? Like 7%.
Not so cycling focused right now, sorry about the delay. Calculations left for the technical thread, but (unless I'm wrong) at 22.23 mph then the reduction in downward force is equal to the grade. So on 10% at 22.23 - you have 10% less friction holding your tire on the corner. This is linear, so at 10% grade and 44.5mph (Palomar parts, Decker Canyon parts) going down this Vuelta part - 20% less friction.
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Old 08-31-15, 05:36 PM
  #103  
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in absence of an authoritative source I am not willing to accept it as fact.
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Old 08-31-15, 05:47 PM
  #104  
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Even accepted at face value, I'm still unclear which mechanic of cornering is changed. Can't lean as far, but you still weight the outside, countersteer, try to apex to give the widest corner, etc. fore/aft weight distribution feels different because braking is more pronounced when cornering speed is gravity assisted, but I think you have the same thing going into a slowdown-180*.

Anyway, doesn't matter. Either you make it or you don't!
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Old 08-31-15, 06:14 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post

Anyway, doesn't matter. Either you make it or you don't!
Indeed. If I tried to do all that math while cornering I'm sure I'd crash
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Old 08-31-15, 09:47 PM
  #106  
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My point was not anyone does the math. And you do make it or you don't. But on a real corner on a real decent/grade the position fore and aft and the lean you can hold is different. In riding on the edge fractions of a percent matter. That riders understand that naturally without math or physics is not being disputed. That the mechanics are different was just my statement. I do care a bit I'm believed, but not that much. I was just trying to help.
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Old 08-31-15, 10:38 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
But on a real corner on a real decent/grade the position fore and aft and the lean you can hold is different. In riding on the edge fractions of a percent matter.
every corner is different. the surfaces are different. there's a cobblestone crosswalk. There's a rain culvert. The outside is sandy in turns 3 and 4 but not 1 or 2.

The mechanics are the same. And fractions of a percent in a corner basically never matter, anyway. If the fractions of percents mattered the very many whole percents I give up would surely matter even more.

I say basically never because I'm sure someone will point me to some race where the finish is 5m after a corner.
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Old 09-02-15, 01:31 PM
  #108  
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Did a really fast training group ride the other night, which was kinda like a crit. Golden Cheetah showed my W' going to -10 during the ride (from 30kJ baseline). I didn't know it could go that low. Wasn't quite able to hang onto the lead group the final lap, because I had done the work to bridge on the lap before and the young fast guys next to me just sat on my wheel.

Anyway, there's only 1 week of crit racing left. I don't know if it's worth it to try 1 crit and then be done for the year. But I could learn and it could give me an idea of what to train for. But I'm pretty sure I'll not be able to hang with the pack. The guy who won last night's crit in the C race just rode away from the pack, and packs an FTP ~ 400w.

I think I need one higher level of fitness. But good thing is that I'm now able to do the fastest group rides I've ever done. I'm moving up in group ride categories.

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Old 09-02-15, 01:38 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by mikewaters View Post
I think I need one higher level of fitness.
Do the one race and find out, otherwise you will keep telling yourself this and never line up.
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Old 09-02-15, 02:25 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by mikewaters View Post
Did a really fast training group ride the other night, which was kinda like a crit. Golden Cheetah showed my W' going to -10 during the ride (from 30kJ baseline). I didn't know it could go that low. Wasn't quite able to hang onto the lead group the final lap, because I had done the work to bridge on the lap before and the young fast guys next to me just sat on my wheel.

Anyway, there's only 1 week of crit racing left. I don't know if it's worth it to try 1 crit and then be done for the year. But I could learn and it could give me an idea of what to train for. But I'm pretty sure I'll not be able to hang with the pack. The guy who won last night's crit in the C race just rode away from the pack, and packs an FTP ~ 400w.

I think I need one higher level of fitness. But good thing is that I'm not able to do the fastest group rides I've ever done. I'm moving up in group ride categories.
How do you quantify these levels?

Regardless ... if you want to race because you want to race, then just race. If you want to race and are nervous you'll get dropped because your fitness is at 7 and you think it should be at 8, then just race. You'll probably surprise yourself. You don't need a 400w ftp to survive a cat 5 crit.
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Old 09-02-15, 02:30 PM
  #111  
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We all want a higher level of fitness. I say give it a go.
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Old 09-02-15, 02:39 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by mikewaters View Post
The guy who won last night's crit in the C race just rode away from the pack, and packs an FTP ~ 400w.
tell him ride away and into another group.
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Old 09-02-15, 06:35 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by mikewaters View Post
I don't know if it's worth it to try 1 crit and then be done for the year. But I could learn and it could give me an idea of what to train for.

Dude quit the hand wringing and neurosis. Just line up and f'ing go for it.
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Old 09-02-15, 08:41 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by mikewaters View Post
The guy who won last night's crit in the C race just rode away from the pack, and packs an FTP ~ 400w.
unlikely
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Old 09-02-15, 08:42 PM
  #115  
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Exactly.
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Old 09-02-15, 09:00 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by mikewaters View Post
So with my numbers, I'd be doing above expectations to be able to stay in the pack? But with the right strategy and staying out of the wind, it might be possible?

I noticed a guy win a local time trial race. 9 miles at 390 watts avg. Looked him up, he races the crit I was looking at. Cat 5. Didn't even win, came in third place. Another guy I know of, won a Cat 5 crit just last week. He does training rides with the Cat 2s. He's way faster than me. I get the impression that many of the Cat 5 racers are more like Cat 3 or better on the e-wang.
I'm going to give it to you straight.

I won my first two Cat4 (Cat5 did not exist) races by lapping the field. The only reason anyone remembers it is because of what I went on to do later as I upgraded and raced the races that really matter. Who cares if there are freakier freaks than you in Cat5? You are there to learn and progress. It's about learning how to race and doing your best. If you win, then you learned fast. If you didn't win and didn't learn anything, then you failed.

Your obsession with watts and kJ and ewang and Strava stalking reveal a lack of confidence, and that concerns me. When you are racing shoulder to shoulder at over 25mph surrounded by a bunch of novice racers like you, you absolutely must be confident or bad things are going to happen. And believe me, they happen quick. The only way you are going to gain confidence is to go out there and race. Sign up for that last race. Do yourself a favor and stuff your Garmin in your pocket. Gather the data but don't look at any of it during the race. You don't know what to do with that information yet, so don't let it affect your race.

Good luck and have fun.
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Old 09-02-15, 09:49 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
unlikely
he did a 19 minute ride TT with measured 391 watts (not normalized).

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Old 09-02-15, 10:08 PM
  #118  
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I'm not expecting to win anything. It's just a lot of hurdles to go from someone who just rides to someone who races. I need to buy a racing license or something. I need to show up and get a number pinned and sign up and pay. It's just easier not to do it. I'm old, I'm fat, I'm modestly fit at best. I don't want to break any bones. No I'm not used to being in a pack of super aggressive riders. Why? Because I have never raced. I have actually done a drill (track) where we ride leaning on each other's shoulders. But am I going to grab a wheel by aggressively going shoulder to shoulder as a turn approaches? The guy on my team I talked to, he's been out much of the summer because of a broken collarbone. Another guy on the team I talked to who had started racing last year gave up this year after breaking bones in his face and having a shoulder reconstruction.

So yeah, it's a MENTAL jump to take this leap. From what I can tell most guys never do it, or if they do try it, then soon quit. I was talking the other night to a successful racer in this scene (Cat 2). He says many people race just 1 season, get discouraged, and never do it again. Addictive for some? Yes. Disappointing and unfulfilling to many? Yes.

I would like to race on a team, make my contribution. I would like to have worked hard enough to be fit enough to do it, after being on a bike for 14 months. But I do apologize if I'm acting like a big crybaby by not just immediately jumping into the mix. I apologize for being deliberate. For checking out the scene, seeing who's riding, what their fitness is like, comparing myself to others on common group rides. I guess I am a "stalker". Sorry.
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Old 09-02-15, 10:21 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by mikewaters View Post
he did a 19 minute ride TT with measured 391 watts (not normalized).
Strava watts are not real.

Here is my personal TT of 22 minutes, with more feet per mile gained, at 2mph faster than your linked segment, on 346w (actual power meter measurement)

https://www.strava.com/activities/358824510#8547416864
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Old 09-02-15, 10:24 PM
  #120  
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The mental hurdle is no small thing to get over. That was one of the challenges for me as well since I had no group riding experience (well, I was physically NOT fit at all when I started racing either). So, I am sure you're physically ready, but your mindset may be a gray area.

You can buy a one day license at the race. You won't (rather, shouldn't) be making contact to take a wheel in your first race. If you get sketched out in the race, sit on the back and draft and integrate as you feel comfortable. If you get dropped, big deal, do a solo TT. People get dropped in crits all the way up to Cat 1, so don't worry about that.
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Old 09-02-15, 10:26 PM
  #121  
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long story short, only OP can decide. And long story short, only once OP races will he know what it's like.
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Old 09-02-15, 10:28 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
Strava watts are not real.

Here is my personal TT of 22 minutes, with more feet per mile gained, at 2mph faster than your linked segment, on 346w (actual power meter measurement)

https://www.strava.com/activities/358824510#8547416864
that little lightning bolt next to his segment of 391 watts over 20:26 indicates "real" watts from a power meter. I'm saying that his 391 wasn't the "weighted average watts". It's the actual watts. When I do a hard ride, my weighted average is higher than my actual watts because I'm doing a fair amount of accelerating and free-wheeling.
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Old 09-02-15, 10:36 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by hack View Post
The mental hurdle is no small thing to get over. That was one of the challenges for me as well since I had no group riding experience (well, I was physically NOT fit at all when I started racing either). So, I am sure you're physically ready, but your mindset may be a gray area.

You can buy a one day license at the race. You won't (rather, shouldn't) be making contact to take a wheel in your first race. If you get sketched out in the race, sit on the back and draft and integrate as you feel comfortable. If you get dropped, big deal, do a solo TT. People get dropped in crits all the way up to Cat 1, so don't worry about that.
I was on an aggressive group ride on Monday. A ride where the group leader talked to the group about not doing dumb things that get people hurt. Anyway, at the very end there was a small group of us that was behind the main fast group. Started to stretch to a single line, and it was me and a woman riding side by side with about 4 riders single file in front of us. We were inches apart. Didn't touch. I felt comfortable, but I'm not sure if she did. I'm certain she must be a racer to be on this ride. I could have moved more into the wind, but I just held my position. Didn't grab the wheel. She had "more" of the wheel than me. Maybe it's like that, I don't know. Maybe she's cussing me out after the ride, I don't know.

I feel like if I do the group rides that racers are doing then I am ready. If I'm doing the group rides that the old fat/fit guys are doing, I'm not ready. ANd I've started making the transition already from the latter to the former.

I AM going to do it. Because it's my goal.
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Old 09-02-15, 11:35 PM
  #124  
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Farg it.
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Old 09-03-15, 03:58 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
Farg it.
Racing water vessels is different than bicycles.
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