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USAC release

Old 10-19-15, 07:28 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
1) NB don't post details.
2) Take a copy of the waiver to a lawyer.

From motorcycle point of view, in NorCal, when people attend track day it says it's a no fault environment. So unless willful negligence is shown no party is responsible. Doesn't mean people won't try to sue, but it is a more uphill battle. I am not aware of any case in NorCal, but there was a case in the other state. Not sure how that turned out.
That has always been my assumption as far as any enviroment such as a race. Don't be a doosh, and try not to take people out. Otherwise life is full of unfortunate moments, but that doesn't mean that it's anybody's fault.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:30 PM
  #27  
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I should have added release waiver explicitly states that.

Also company lawyer is not your lawyer. They will do whatever is best for the company, which not necessarily what is good for you.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:31 PM
  #28  
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Thanks, when it was asking for my insurance info to cover med expenses I was OK with it, but with the ridiculous demand and no documentation, I am much more in the screw you mode
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Old 10-19-15, 07:35 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
I should have added release waiver explicitly states that.

Also company lawyer is not your lawyer. They will do whatever is best for the company, which not necessarily what is good for you.
I understand that, but if I hire my own lawyer and still lose to the point of exceeding my coverage limits, then I am no where. I am saving the lawyer money to go immediately bankrupt if that's the case, and hiring the lawyer to do that. Then any judgement in excess of my coverage limits becomes another unsecured debt and they get nothing. Otherwise my house, car, and everything else I own becomes subject to seizure to cover the beyond limit amount, not to mention potentially having my wages garnished. Bankruptcy takes all of that off the table.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:37 PM
  #30  
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That's a serious downer, best of luck. I've been crashed out and have caused a crash ... at no point did lawsuits enter my mind or the other crashers/ees minds. It's riding bikes in a pack and has some assumed risks. If there was no ill intent (even if it was your fault), that's just something that can happen. I wonder if USAC will start requiring each racer carry some add'l liability insurance.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:39 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by hack View Post
That's a serious downer, best of luck. I've been crashed out and have caused a crash ... at no point did lawsuits enter my mind of the other crashers/ees minds. It's riding bikes in a pack and has some assumed risks. If there was no ill intent (even if it was your fault), that's just something that can happen. I wonder if USAC will start requiring each racer carry some add'l liability insurance.
USAC actually offers it to members, as I discovered doing some research.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:42 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by noise boy View Post
USAC actually offers it to members, as I discovered doing some research.
I thought that was for your own injuries and not if you injure others?
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Old 10-19-15, 07:44 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by hack View Post
I thought that was for your own injuries and not if you injure others?
Exactly, but by covering that, they reduce the likelihood of lawsuits like this, at least to a certain extent. Assuming I don't have to go bankrupt, I am going to look into a personal umbrella liability policy for down the road, at least see what that would cost me.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:48 PM
  #34  
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If the person ran into your rear wheel, that sounds similar to motor vehicle laws, in which the person behind is at fault for following too closely.

Common rule of thumb in cycling is for the rider behind: "don't overlap wheels".. Make sure any lawyers, insurance people understand this.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:50 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
If the person ran into your rear wheel, that sounds similar to motor vehicle laws, in which the person behind is at fault for following too closely.
Agreed, it's legal name is "Failure to maintain safe following distance".
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Old 10-19-15, 07:52 PM
  #36  
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I would think your homeowner's insurance will be reluctant to pay, since you can inform them the plaintiff was at fault.
Did your bike get damaged ?
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Old 10-19-15, 07:55 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
I would think your homeowner's insurance will be reluctant to pay, since you can inform them the plaintiff was at fault.
Did your bike get damaged ?
They are, hence why no money has changed hands yet. No damage to either bike, like I said this was a 5mph crash at most.
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Old 10-19-15, 07:59 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by noise boy View Post
They are, hence why no money has changed hands yet. No damage to either bike, like I said this was a 5mph crash at most.
$300k claimed in damages for a 5 mph crash? That says a lot about the plaintiff. . . . . and none of it much good.
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Old 10-19-15, 08:04 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
$300k claimed in damages for a 5 mph crash? That says a lot about the plaintiff. . . . . and none of it much good.
That and the lie that it is at the heart of the complaint about who hit whom. Like I said, I will never participate in any event like this again, too many lawyers and money grubbing folks with no morals in the world to trust anybody.

I can see the need for a lawsuit in the event of gross neglect on someones part, but even with that I have trouble thinking of a situation where that would come into play. Even in the other example from earlier in this thread, pedal strikes are something that happens, it's not deliberate. It's a drag that it resulted in another racer going down and getting a serious injury but them's the breaks in life. It's never fair.
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Old 10-20-15, 07:50 AM
  #40  
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Based on your description of the event, I can see how she is claiming you are at fault. You said you were turning into a rest stop, and she didn't see you and ran into you. She could argue that you failed to maintain your lane.

That said, the lawsuit is ridiculous, though I am not surprised. This woman sued her nephew for running and jumping into her to give her a hug, causing her to fall over and break her wrist. As a result of her injury, she had trouble holding her plate of hor devours at a recent party.
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Old 10-20-15, 08:05 AM
  #41  
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We take a lot of liberties with discussing things outside of racing in this forum, but I'm not clear how what sounds like a charity ride was a USAC event or what this really has to do with racing as opposed to being placed in advocacy and safety. All chips in there sounds like there's more to this story than is being laid out as I can't even fathom how she would even be able to point a finger or have your personal information to sue, or how she could be suing you and not USAC and the promoter, marshals, etc. The case in NJ where the guy died saw everyone sued. Promoter, officials, sponsors…

To actually get paid, never mind paid in the kind of numbers you're talking about there would need to be demonstrated long term loss and permanent injuries.
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Old 10-20-15, 11:01 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Based on your description of the event, I can see how she is claiming you are at fault. You said you were turning into a rest stop, and she didn't see you and ran into you. She could argue that you failed to maintain your lane.

That said, the lawsuit is ridiculous, though I am not surprised. This woman sued her nephew for running and jumping into her to give her a hug, causing her to fall over and break her wrist. As a result of her injury, she had trouble holding her plate of hor devours at a recent party.
It was actually after we had turned into the parking lot that housed the rest stop, which was huge, so it wasn't clear where the rest stop actually was within it. The nephew thing was done to get her bills paid, the amount was under the nephews parent's liability coverage under their homeowners. Apparently the parents knew that she was doing it.

Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
We take a lot of liberties with discussing things outside of racing in this forum, but I'm not clear how what sounds like a charity ride was a USAC event or what this really has to do with racing as opposed to being placed in advocacy and safety. All chips in there sounds like there's more to this story than is being laid out as I can't even fathom how she would even be able to point a finger or have your personal information to sue, or how she could be suing you and not USAC and the promoter, marshals, etc. The case in NJ where the guy died saw everyone sued. Promoter, officials, sponsors…

To actually get paid, never mind paid in the kind of numbers you're talking about there would need to be demonstrated long term loss and permanent injuries.
It was a USAC sanctioned timed event, and I was wearing a timing chip. I figured that this forum would have the most experience with similar incidents and therefore some insight. The other rider is claiming some permanent disability, but according to the lawyer the cureent medical bills are only 11K. Also confirmed that my coverage is good for 300K, so right now everything is what it is. If it goes to a jury (the lawyer says about 97% of these type cases settle before going to a jury) then all bets are off.

Last edited by noise boy; 10-21-15 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 10-20-15, 11:07 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by noise boy View Post
Correct, but does it not protect me from other riders, all of whom signed the same waiver?
it doesn't, alas why she is suing you.

For people who don't bother to scratch the surface of such "contracts," it would appear as if they have signed away the right to sue, but that's not really the case as you have unfortunately learned first hand.

Very sorry to hear that this was befallen upon you
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Old 10-20-15, 11:09 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by echappist View Post
it doesn't, alas why she is suing you.

For people who don't bother to scratch the surface of such "contracts," it would appear as if they have signed away the right to sue, but that's not really the case as you have unfortunately learned first hand.

Very sorry to hear that this was befallen upon you
As mentioned, the release prohibits you from suing everybody but another rider Drag.
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Old 10-20-15, 11:54 AM
  #45  
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Old 10-20-15, 11:57 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by noise boy View Post
I figured that this forum would have the most experience with similar incidents and therefore some insight.
I can't speak for everyone here, but I've never heard of anything quite like your case - a rider suing another rider after an incident at a race or other USAC-sanctioned event. Which is not to say that it's never happened before, but it is rare enough that this isn't something there's a huge well of experience to draw from here.
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Old 10-20-15, 12:06 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by grolby View Post
I can't speak for everyone here, but I've never heard of anything quite like your case - a rider suing another rider after an incident at a race or other USAC-sanctioned event. Which is not to say that it's never happened before, but it is rare enough that this isn't something there's a huge well of experience to draw from here.
That increases my faith in humanity
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Old 10-20-15, 01:53 PM
  #48  
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I figured as much. I had a buddy who was a insurance lawyer for many years, both plaintiff's and in-house, and he said that these are typical.
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Old 10-20-15, 02:00 PM
  #49  
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<Insert standard disclaimer about not being a lawyer and this isn't legal advice>

In most states, the liability in a sporting event is treated differently than general everyday activities. Generally by being in/at a sporting event each person is assuming the reasonably foreseeable risks of that event. In Maryland this can include other participants acting unreasonably or being negligent (American Powerlifting Association v. Cotillo.). Unless there is some evidence to intent to do harm or recklessness, I would think a lot of suits like this could be dismissed on summary judgement.

From a contract perspective, there is absolute no way a liability waiver could remove your right to sue a third party. The barely (don't) prevent you from suing the the group having you sign the waiver. They are useful though in specifying some of foreseeable risks.
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Old 10-21-15, 09:02 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Fingolfin View Post
From a contract perspective, there is absolute no way a liability waiver could remove your right to sue a third party. The barely (don't) prevent you from suing the the group having you sign the waiver. They are useful though in specifying some of foreseeable risks.
I suspect that her signing the waiver itself demonstrates that she's aware of the risks. GET YOUR OWN LAWYER.

Your reasoning for not getting a lawyer is flawed: you said that if you got one and lost, then you'd rather have not got one at all. BAD thinking. The odds of your own lawyer doing this right *for you* are much much higher. The insurance lawyer isn't looking out for your interests. You get your own lawyer and get this thing dismissed immediately.
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