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Old 12-09-15, 03:29 PM
  #301  
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So what we're saying is that people with low T should be able to boost their levels to 'normal'?
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Old 12-09-15, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by shermo
So what we're saying is that people with low T should be able to boost their levels to 'normal'?
If it's medically necessary, sure.
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Old 12-09-15, 03:50 PM
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"we're" not saying that at all.
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Old 12-09-15, 03:51 PM
  #304  
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Under what circumstances is it medically necessary, and when should a patient be tested to determine whether or not he qualifies as medically needing testosterone? Does a guy working 60hrs a week, sleeping 4hrs a night, and training 15hrs/wk get to have testosterone treatments and race because his hormones are way low?
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Old 12-09-15, 03:54 PM
  #305  
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How about low HCT?
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Old 12-09-15, 04:07 PM
  #306  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
How about low HCT?
only if you are receiving dialysis or had your bone marrows zapped by chemo/radiation. otherwise no soup for you
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Old 12-09-15, 04:25 PM
  #307  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Under what circumstances is it medically necessary, and when should a patient be tested to determine whether or not he qualifies as medically needing testosterone? Does a guy working 60hrs a week, sleeping 4hrs a night, and training 15hrs/wk get to have testosterone treatments and race because his hormones are way low?
Guy loses his testicles. How much T do we give him?
There are diseases that are corrected by most items on that list. Just that I don't trust over-correction, honest result or cheating will be avoided in many cases.
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Old 12-09-15, 04:27 PM
  #308  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Does a guy working 60hrs a week, sleeping 4hrs a night, and training 15hrs/wk get to have testosterone treatments and race because his hormones are way low?
According to WADA that would be considered a functional deficiency and would never qualify. According to the link teton posted recreational athletes, in the USA, might be able to get a TUE.

Functional androgen deficiency may be due to:
1. Severe emotional stress.
2. Morbid Obesity, untreated obstructive sleep apnea.
3. Overtraining, malnutrition/nutritional deficiency, eating disorders.
4. Medication – opioids, androgens, selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs), glucocorticoids, progestins, estrogens, medication-induced Hyperprolactinemia.
5. Chronic systemic illness (chronic organ failure, diabetes mellitus, malignancy, rheumatic disease, HIV infection, Crohn’s disease, inherited metabolic storage diseases).
6. Constitutional delayed puberty.**
7. Aging/Late onset hypogonadism (LOH).
8. Alcohol excess.
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Old 12-09-15, 04:34 PM
  #309  
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I suffer from aging!
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Old 12-09-15, 04:44 PM
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I suffer from being a regular, healthy 29yo male!

Sometimes I drink too much and stay up too late
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so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
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Old 12-09-15, 04:57 PM
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Correct all you want, but no racing without a legitimate TUE. Period. End of story.
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Old 12-09-15, 05:10 PM
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I hear that synthetic opiates like Tramadol combined with ADD meds like Ritalin are the thing now. Go hard, feel no pain, eyes wide open.
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Old 12-09-15, 05:13 PM
  #313  
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having taken tramadol I can't fathom how someone can race on that.
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Old 12-09-15, 05:29 PM
  #314  
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Scary, scary stuff.
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Old 12-09-15, 05:43 PM
  #315  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Under what circumstances is it medically necessary, and when should a patient be tested to determine whether or not he qualifies as medically needing testosterone? Does a guy working 60hrs a week, sleeping 4hrs a night, and training 15hrs/wk get to have testosterone treatments and race because his hormones are way low?
Sorry KP, no cure for your bacne but rest.
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Old 12-09-15, 05:45 PM
  #316  
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Originally Posted by cmh
Sorry KP, no cure for your bacne but rest.
Or do I have that backwards? Bacne goes away when you train hard? (Sorry for the off topic posts)
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Old 12-09-15, 05:58 PM
  #317  
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lol, it happened when i took my season break and went away after like a week, and hasn't come back since. Hormones doing hormone things.
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Old 12-10-15, 07:45 AM
  #318  
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Originally Posted by Doge
not all items are directly PEDs - but they are banned to cyclists and thoght to offer some performance, rest or recovery benefit to be listed.
things are also on the list because they act as masking agents
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Old 12-10-15, 07:53 AM
  #319  
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Who determines whether testosterone is a medically necessary treatment? Well, I'd say an endocrinologist says so. If a rider has an endocrine condition where testosterone is part of that treatment, then I'm fine with it. That's obviously open for abuse, but so is everything. We have speed limits and that doesn't make it impossible to speed. I don't worry about a few people abusing something to prevent others from getting the treatment they need *and* for those people to still have a right to compete in sport.
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Old 12-10-15, 08:08 AM
  #320  
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if you're on T you shouldn't be allowed to race.
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Old 12-10-15, 08:13 AM
  #321  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
if you're on T you shouldn't be allowed to race.
Because why? Bodies aren't as simple as you're making them out to be.

https://socialdifference.columbia.edu...f%20Bounds.pdf
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Old 12-10-15, 08:18 AM
  #322  
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making them out to be simple? is that what passes for a philosophical argument where you teach? because I never said or indicated that.
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Old 12-10-15, 08:23 AM
  #323  
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Originally Posted by canuckbelle
Because why? Bodies aren't as simple as you're making them out to be.

https://socialdifference.columbia.edu...f%20Bounds.pdf

Is the policy described in the paper the current policy? Female athletes are allowed to compete only if their testosterone level is below a maximum, similar to the HCT ceiling test. Anyone with levels above the specified maximum in either case is considered outside the biological bounds of a level playing field, regardless of whether the high level is endogenous or the result of doping.
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Old 12-10-15, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
Is the policy described in the paper the current policy? Female athletes are allowed to compete only if their testosterone level is below a maximum, similar to the HCT ceiling test. Anyone with levels above the specified maximum in either case is considered outside the biological bounds of a level playing field, regardless of whether the high level is endogenous or the result of doping.
We're not talking about people above maximums. If it's "no T at all" then we're also talking about people *below* the bottom of ranges.

Saying "if you're on T you shouldn't be allowed to race." Gsteinb is indeed making bodies out to be pretty simple. If someone is below the normal healthy range for their sex...why no T at all and being allowed to race? It seems like you're saying "any T = unfair advantage," but that requires a very overly simplistic view of the physiology of T in bodies.
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Old 12-10-15, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas
Is the policy described in the paper the current policy? Female athletes are allowed to compete only if their testosterone level is below a maximum, similar to the HCT ceiling test. Anyone with levels above the specified maximum in either case is considered outside the biological bounds of a level playing field, regardless of whether the high level is endogenous or the result of doping.
Actually, the gender policy only applies to women for endogenous T. Above maximum for women (which this paper criticizes as insufficiently based on sound science), everything endogenous is fair game for men. There's no maximum T above which men can't compete (if it's endogenous).
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