misterwaterfall

To me the substance doesn't matter as long as it's legal(in terms of this conversation). I would bet that many of us can agree that most of the things we do on a daily basis are done with the intentions of getting stronger and/or faster on a bike. I intend to get a good nights sleep, if I have to take melatonin to do that so be it. I intend to hydrate myself, if taking capped electrolytes help that so be it.

My point is: we all put unnatural things into our bodies every day, we might as well find the easiest and safest ways to do that. Caffeine pills for example allow you to accurately measure how much you are taking as apposed to downing a quad shot americano on the way to the line which could be 200-500mg depending on many factors.

beatlebee 

Just another thought. What about agents which show no performance benefit in large scale studies but turns out to be a PED for certain physiologies? My point being, I agree with TMonk, that all of this is very grey.

79pmooney

I haven't raced for decades. When I did, I consumed very little white sugar and no caffeine. I did eat a sugar maple candy a few times late in races, purely as a drug. (Staying away from with sugar meant that it acted in my body almost like mild speed.) I also was known to ding black coffee and two packages of sugar when I was bonked and 50 miles form home a few times. (I once rode a hilly 120 miles, stopped for that "juice" and rode that last 50 miles non-stop like I was drugged on the good stuff!)

Now, I drink coffee every day though a lot of it (all that I make at home and my double shot espressos) are made half decaf. I love good Italian coffee. Got turned on to it, both the beans and the brew, when my brother and sister spent a summer in Italy. Brother brought home the beans and a moka coffee pot. Sister, a grinder. That year, my cousin/chef turned me on to a good source for US roasted beans; the original Starbucks in Seattle. (1984) (10 years later, I got to serve my sister's friend from Italy some real Italian coffee.)

It was said that the father of our racing scene used to carry a flask of coke syrup in his jersey and down it late in races. If true, makes my dosing look pretty innocent.

Ben

jsk

Hmm, taking the 'intent' argument to it's logical extreme, I guess choosing to eat specific foods based on the macro-nutrients, vitamins, and minerals they contain to maximize performance would be unethical (or at least lame).


I agree, very useful for getting science-backed information about supplements and nutrution as opposed to bro-science anecdotes.

gsteinb

It's kinda like you're making up a conversation to have with yourself.

I like the way a couple cups of coffee feel in the morning.
I do not like the way caffeine pills
I also don't often drink coffee beyond late morning.

No one said anything about 'their enjoyment of caffeine not being related to how it makes them feel.' What was said was not liking the intent to take something in a pill form for the specific intent of performance.

And no, we don't agree to disagree. You're simply wrong in this case, as you're over looking what's actually been said in favor of some narrative you're concocting.

dim

[h=1]The Athlete's Guide to Near-Constant Caffeination[/h][h=2]Best practices for a good buzz[/h]
The Athlete's Guide to Near-Constant Caffeination | Outside Online

Ygduf

I get decaf coffee in restaurants because I don't need more caffeine at 9pm but I like the taste and ritual.

gsteinb

doesn't decaf taste like ass?

nttawt

mattm

So you could quit any time, right?

Fwiw I also love caffeine, and take caffeine pills/gels pre race.

Tried the "pre-race" powder once and felt like a junky and got cramps, never again.

Ygduf

I'll eat a gel like 20 minutes before the end of a race because I know that tasting sweet things signals my that it's OK to burn more glycogen.

caffeine is a food to me. I have no concern using it as a life-enhancing-drug just about all day every day.

Ygduf

I actually do. When I broke my clavicles I went off caffeine both times because I was off work for a week and laying at home being caffeinated and awake was worse than being at home and able to sleep 12 hours/day.

gsteinb

There's a study that addresses that, though I think the interval is actually like 30 minutes they looked at.

topflightpro

I am against caffeine pills because I know they can be addicting, and I've been scared straight:

mattm

@TMonk: Is it wrong to use deep section carbon wheels, if your intent is to go faster than someone with crappy wheels?

TMonk

Reflect, contemplate and meditate; the answer lies deep within your soul.

TexMac

You guys are so advanced, I drink beet root juice with red wine and ice on weekends

globecanvas

FWIW I quit caffeine a couple of years ago and I found the withdrawal very, very difficult. I started up again about a year later. @Ygduf if you say you drink a lot of coffee but are not addicted, I believe you, but I can't relate.

As for the other stuff, there's a vast ethical spectrum between everybody should race pan y agua on the same equipment, and anything goes as long as you don't get caught. We each place ourselves where we are comfortable on that spectrum.

My reaction to people who place themselves somewhere different from me, is itself on a spectrum. If your behavior is somewhat different from mine, like by taking bodybuilding supplements and caffeine pills, maybe I can't relate, but I probably can't relate to your taste in music or cars either, so that's fine. if your behavior is vastly different from mine, like by taking gray-area performance enhancing drugs that are not illegal just because they aren't on the list yet, then I think it's lame.

Ygduf

I am clearly addicted but I don't find the withdrawal very bad. Basically ibuprofen to kill the caffeine headaches for a few days.

mattm

Is anyone actually saying that?

globecanvas

Certainly there are bike racers who believe that. I don't think anybody has said it in this thread yet.

TMonk

What people in this thread have insinuated is that any substance is OK, as long as it is under the max permissible level allowed by the current WADA code, whether that be 0 at X mg/kg (or whatever their metrics are)

I don't believe that.

gsteinb

I think doge wants to say that. Can I troll you into saying it, doge?

mattm

I guess my point is this thread is about things that are explicitly ok by the rules.

There may a few things that are not yet against the rules - but I doubt that would apply to most people doing amateur racing much less posting here.

Caffeine for instance is explicitly allowed by the rules. I believe there used to be a limit of the amount of in-competition caffeine that was allowed, but this is no longer the case.

I dig your perspective on this, but want to clarify what we're talking about. Or at least what I'm talking about.

globecanvas

Fair enough. I guess I went off the deep end a bit. Maybe it comes from having kids. When they start asking about behavior that is technically within the rules but in the same ballpark as out of bounds behavior, my spidey senses start jangling.

Andy STi

I drink my diet pepsi daily. I don't drink coffee, just not my thing. I will have a pop before a race depending on the time, keeps me at my baseline. I've never tried a Red Bull as I'm kinda afraid. I don't have a problem with people using caffeine pills, I don't know if I ever will but I'm not put out by someone else doing it.