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Junior gear and why you care...

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Junior gear and why you care...

Old 12-30-15, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
it's also incredibly dubious to keep pointing to Costa losing 1st by 30 seconds over 10 hours of racing as if that is representative of anything...

I won a RR where I was in a break for like 90 minutes and finished 7 seconds ahead of the pack. Probably some Jr's dad is like "he lost by 7 seconds over 3.5 hours because of gearing..."
I thought you didn't care about this thread.
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Old 12-30-15, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by canuckbelle
Yeah, junior wobble scares the crap outta me. I think a junior caused a big pile-up in an August race. One broke a hip, 4-5 others went down. We were in a tight bunch when an acceleration happened. I stayed seated because we were bunched up...one junior was all over the place.

Is it just a lack of awareness of their position in relation to others? They seem to throw the bike around whenever they accelerate, irrespective of whether they're in the middle of a tight bunch.
I think part of it is muscle control, something that is learned, and part of it is emulating pros. Watch the sprint finish of any Tour race. They are flailing away on their bikes. It looks like they are out of control, but they are not.
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Old 12-30-15, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
I think part of it is muscle control, something that is learned, and part of it is emulating pros. Watch the sprint finish of any Tour race. They are flailing away on their bikes. It looks like they are out of control, but they are not.
It's context, too. A field sprint at the end is very different from following an acceleration in a tight bunch. I think that they don't quite get that.
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Old 12-30-15, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by canuckbelle
It's context, too. A field sprint at the end is very different from following an acceleration in a tight bunch. I think that they don't quite get that.
I had a Junior woman in the P/1/2 race come into the pit last year in Hartford FOUR times. She wasn't alone. She legitimately crashed every time. Granted, it's a demanding course.
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Old 12-30-15, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
I thought you didn't care about this thread.
I don't care about junior gears; I love criticizing flawed arguments.
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Old 12-30-15, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf
I don't care about junior gears; I love criticizing flawed arguments.
You must be a thrill at parties. President of the Stanford elitist club.
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Old 12-30-15, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
You must be a thrill at parties. President of the Stanford elitist club.
I don't leave the house. There's too much work to be done on the internet!
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Old 12-30-15, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
I think part of it is muscle control, something that is learned, and part of it is emulating pros. Watch the sprint finish of any Tour race. They are flailing away on their bikes. It looks like they are out of control, but they are not.
I think it is all the above. Some more advanced juniors wobble to create space.
Is this a junior thing or a mixed category thing? P12 juniors are not all that bad are they ?
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Old 12-31-15, 12:41 AM
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There was a guy around here, Masters racer who would purposely get out of the saddle and wobble side to side on group rides to make himself room to move up for the sprint. Everyone knew he was three quarters crazy
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Old 12-31-15, 06:26 AM
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Speaking of juniors, my new team (that just formed/reformed) has a junior that signed up. I'm excited about that, and I hope others join as well. This area needs all the cycling/racing it can get and the more juniors the better.
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Old 12-31-15, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge
I think it is all the above. Some more advanced juniors wobble to create space.
Is this a junior thing or a mixed category thing? P12 juniors are not all that bad are they ?
I do not lump all Juniors together in one bunch with bad habits. There are plenty of Juniors with solid bike handling and racing skills, especially the ones that raced BMX.
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Old 12-31-15, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
especially the ones that raced BMX.
gosh i have no idea what family of new england cross racers you could be referring to
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Old 12-31-15, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
True, but she consistently kicks ass. Top tens in Women's pro fields at age 17.
One of my first memories of her was the first season she and Sam were coming into Chicago to clip the whole Cross Cup series. She had to have been like 10 or 11. She dropped a chain at some point and was trying to get it out and back on the crank. I vividly remember her breaking into tears. I went up and was talking her through it. "It's fine. Use this to recover and take a breath. You've got this. Pull that there. Do that. I can't touch your bike. There you go, etc."

From early on she kind of became the official family liaison to sponsors like me. She's a natural at it and if we can find a way to make this sport pay a living wage for the top performers then we're going to have her around for a long time. Sam - I'm guessing she's out in the next few years. Was thinking she was gone after college and when she got married but the IS Corp deal last year gave them all good reason to keep at it.

Has nothing to do with Junior gearing but meh.
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Old 12-31-15, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
One of my first memories of her was the first season she and Sam were coming into Chicago to clip the whole Cross Cup series. She had to have been like 10 or 11. She dropped a chain at some point and was trying to get it out and back on the crank. I vividly remember her breaking into tears. I went up and was talking her through it. "It's fine. Use this to recover and take a breath. You've got this. Pull that there. Do that. I can't touch your bike. There you go, etc."

From early on she kind of became the official family liaison to sponsors like me. She's a natural at it and if we can find a way to make this sport pay a living wage for the top performers then we're going to have her around for a long time. Sam - I'm guessing she's out in the next few years. Was thinking she was gone after college and when she got married but the IS Corp deal last year gave them all good reason to keep at it.

Has nothing to do with Junior gearing but meh.
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Old 12-31-15, 05:59 PM
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Just thoughts - a bit on topic - dreaming... There are many races where the age/gender group may have very few racers. Valley of the Sun 2015 had a field of 1 in one race and 2nd place was also last place in another. Many races are similar. Typically junior and women's races.
If instead we had categories that were not based on age or gender where everyone in that category got to use the same equipment it would certainly help promoters. This is not unlike a marathon where you line up by anticipated time and then everyone looks up to see where they scored relative to their group.
Idea is simple:
-Cat 7 where everyone starts - 52X16 gears, max field 25 10 races to move up
-Cat 6 52X14
-Cat 5
...
Men, women and children all racing based on category only. Then a Cat X will mean Cat X - no qualifiers.
Sure Nationals and big races we can divide things up into groups, or divide things up any time there is a field big enough. But having fields of <10 riders is difficult on the promoter and racer.
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Old 01-01-16, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mike868y
tbh I think a gear restriction would make more sense for Cat 5s than for juniors. even if one believes that riding a low cadence can hurt your knees it's not like there aren't hills in races where juniors can still mash a low cadence even with junior gears.
At some velodromes, the V's have restricted gears.
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Old 01-01-16, 08:37 AM
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I spent time in the 90's working with a junior only development team. It had a track focus, but junior distances are so short on the road that the training overlaps well. We had a kid as a 14 year old, took all the national champions jerseys for both the road and track. He did a 12.1 200 meter time, which would have qualified him for senior narionals. He rode an 84 inch gear. That was the gear he liked. Kept up with cat 1/2 fields. In his time as a junior, he won maybe 15 plus national champions jerseys and a top 15 at worlds on the road. The coach was very into developing cadence. All his riders were like that. Another one of his riders got 3rd at nats road by soloing off the front of the field on the start of the last lap. He went on to ride for Marion College. He was also competitive in the 1/2 fields. He won me a gift certificate to the Mac and Jack brewery because he was only 17. I got to him before his Dad did. I think it is important to start developing cadence early. As a young rider matures, they will develop the strength to ride larger gears, hopefully still retaining their ability to pedal fast.
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Old 01-01-16, 09:02 AM
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All I gotta say is;

Seenyas to the line, chewnyas on deck".
The mighty words of Thro Kron calling us to the line, Northbrook,IL.

The Junior gear restriction went into effect the year I started racing. I thought it odd that I had to get a freewheel starting with a 15 tooth cog, but it wasn't a big deal. In 3 years as a Junior I never felt I needed a gear bigger than the 5215. Most of the time I was in 52x16. I do remember one training race, going on a slight downhill trying like heck to stay on the wheel of John Howard. I was spinning out pretty good. Got in a low tuck and coasted, stayed in his draft. He was a big dude.
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Old 01-04-16, 11:50 PM
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Hyperbole for the point. What USAC is doing selecting the best 52X16 riders as future best adult riders is like selecting the best from this group.
https://www.facebook.com/BikeRoar/videos/829796187069219/?fref=nf
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Old 01-08-16, 06:58 AM
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I was just reading a caption under a photo on the Classic Lightweights website. It identified the young rider on a fixed gear bike, and the event was a TT with 72" gear restriction. The photo was from the 50's or 60's. Gear restrictions develop good pedaling technique.
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Old 01-08-16, 07:07 AM
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imho if highschool teams like football wrestling soccer etc can hit the gym, then let the juniors run pie plate 58t
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Old 01-08-16, 07:17 AM
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what does the management of one organization have to do with that of another?

i.e. so you're saying football coaches know better?

what does "hit the gym" mean? set, reps, %max, % bodyweight?

perhaps what's really needed is parental waivers for big gears, but the kid gets booted from juniors.

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Old 01-08-16, 07:54 AM
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4 pages and I still don't care about junior gears
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Old 01-08-16, 08:55 AM
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...but you did care enough to post!
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Old 01-08-16, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by big chainring
... Gear restrictions develop good pedaling technique.
Context is when racing adults, not each other.

A pedaling technique, suited to some conditions and less so to other conditions is forced on one age group, not on the other age group in the same race. Should the roll of USAC be to develop the pedaling they think is important on Pro, Cat 1, Cat 2 riders based on age alone?
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