Racing on aero road bike? Making a real difference?
02-24-16, 11:38 AM
#76
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It is not 100% but the area we do use a power meter is for testing aero stuff. We have not yet done it at the velodrome, but have doing repeated runs on the same course at the same power while also looking at HR. I've seen HR go up as more core is used to stabilize higher profile wheels for example. It still ends up being a guess, but it can be an educated one and many tests are repeatable when run a month later. I can't pick up cable tie differences, but helmets, wheel profiles do tend to show.
Where this becomes a bit more complicated is choosing a more aero position that also is less powerful. So getting a more acute torso/hip angle while more aero holding the same watts, but the max watts in that position are also lower. That is where/why we used an experienced power guy for bike fitting - even though power is not used for training.
Where this becomes a bit more complicated is choosing a more aero position that also is less powerful. So getting a more acute torso/hip angle while more aero holding the same watts, but the max watts in that position are also lower. That is where/why we used an experienced power guy for bike fitting - even though power is not used for training.
Last edited by Doge; 02-24-16 at 11:53 AM.
02-24-16, 11:42 AM
#77
commu*ist spy
What established empirical facts? You're free to look things up. I'm not going to put my references in my signature everytime. And someone already posted a link validating booties aero savings. I never saw empirical data to back up the other claims.
02-24-16, 11:44 AM
#78
commu*ist spy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation
Note the area term. For starters, I'm not really interested in writing a dissertation on bicycles and drag for the Internet though.
Note the area term. For starters, I'm not really interested in writing a dissertation on bicycles and drag for the Internet though.
02-24-16, 12:56 PM
#79
Senior Member
Anyway, fine. Fair enough. I don't care to go dredging up studies nor digging up old posts by members whose expertise I actually trust who actually went and did tunnel time with different shoe covers and found most of them were useless. I really just wanted to point out that sometimes "aero" accessories aren't actually validated by testing before going on sale, and just cause they "make sense" doesn't mean validation is unnecessary. So sure, I suppose I have no better a leg to stand on than you do. The difference, though, is you're wrong to insist that Product X is faster because it's smoother. It ain't necessarily so.
02-24-16, 02:00 PM
#80
commu*ist spy
If I need to explain the difference between "most" and "all," I really can't help you.
Anyway, fine. Fair enough. I don't care to go dredging up studies nor digging up old posts by members whose expertise I actually trust who actually went and did tunnel time with different shoe covers and found most of them were useless. I really just wanted to point out that sometimes "aero" accessories aren't actually validated by testing before going on sale, and just cause they "make sense" doesn't mean validation is unnecessary. So sure, I suppose I have no better a leg to stand on than you do. The difference, though, is you're wrong to insist that Product X is faster because it's smoother. It ain't necessarily so.
Anyway, fine. Fair enough. I don't care to go dredging up studies nor digging up old posts by members whose expertise I actually trust who actually went and did tunnel time with different shoe covers and found most of them were useless. I really just wanted to point out that sometimes "aero" accessories aren't actually validated by testing before going on sale, and just cause they "make sense" doesn't mean validation is unnecessary. So sure, I suppose I have no better a leg to stand on than you do. The difference, though, is you're wrong to insist that Product X is faster because it's smoother. It ain't necessarily so.
02-24-16, 02:07 PM
#81
out walking the earth
https://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/16686.pdf
The present investigation essentially confirmed the results obtained with the partial model: the overshoes produced an increase in the aerodynamic drag.
02-24-16, 05:40 PM
#82
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It should be noted that Sir Bradley Wiggins didn't use overshoes during his Hour Record ride.
Nor do British team pursuit squad.
02-24-16, 06:01 PM
#83
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A 63-page UCI document titled, “Check of the equipment and position in competition,” details the changes for 2012, which also includes regulations requiring hydration packs to be worn on the back (rather than the front) beginning April 1, banning shoe covers in track racing as of October 1, and requiring socks to be shorter than the mid-point between the ankle and the knee, effective immediately. According to the UCI, the rules regarding hydration packs are intended to prevent riders from gaining aerodynamic advantage by placing a hydration pack on their stomach. The sock rule is likely intended to prevent the use of compression wear.
Last edited by jdms mvp; 02-26-16 at 05:05 AM.
02-24-16, 06:30 PM
#84
Senior Member
You actually get 5 or 10 (can't remember) cm below the top of the wheel now. I think the front of your drops are probably too far in front of the axel for UCI rules though,so that's still something to figure out.
Or just blow those rules off because they're dumb and you don't have to follow them.
Or just blow those rules off because they're dumb and you don't have to follow them.
The stuff I've noticed are things that officials have told me at races, meaning "You know that's not UCI legal". The things that got pointed out to me are the rear wheel clearance on the black bike (negligible, like a credit card won't fit between the tire and the seat tube with a 23c tire which is apparently illegal), the drops being too low, and the saddle being way too far forward, i.e. nose in front of BB / negative setback.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
02-24-16, 06:32 PM
#85
Senior Member
On aero studies. Some of the old standard findings like Chester Kyle's data can be off. Chester Kyle famously found that shaving your legs is worth next to nothing. When asked about his test later he admitted they simply glued some hair onto a plastic doll type leg and extrapolated their findings. I would trust Specialized's wind tunnel data more than that.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
02-24-16, 11:12 PM
#86
commu*ist spy
On aero studies. Some of the old standard findings like Chester Kyle's data can be off. Chester Kyle famously found that shaving your legs is worth next to nothing. When asked about his test later he admitted they simply glued some hair onto a plastic doll type leg and extrapolated their findings. I would trust Specialized's wind tunnel data more than that.
02-24-16, 11:14 PM
#87
Senior Member
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
02-25-16, 12:43 AM
#89
Senior Member
Understood. They did it as a joke as a triathlete hadn't shaved before showing up. They tested him, the number was so big (79 seconds over 40km) that they tested more riders before releasing data. All riders saved "50 and 82 seconds over 40 kilometres".
Print article here:
The curious case of the cyclist?s unshaven legs - The Globe and Mail
Print article here:
The curious case of the cyclist?s unshaven legs - The Globe and Mail
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
02-25-16, 12:53 AM
#90
commu*ist spy
Understood. They did it as a joke as a triathlete hadn't shaved before showing up. They tested him, the number was so big (79 seconds over 40km) that they tested more riders before releasing data. All riders saved "50 and 82 seconds over 40 kilometres".
Print article here:
The curious case of the cyclist?s unshaven legs - The Globe and Mail
Print article here:
The curious case of the cyclist?s unshaven legs - The Globe and Mail
02-25-16, 08:13 AM
#92
Nonsense
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I'd probably opt for a jersey that fits perfectly. Aero helmet has more bling factor, but my experience suggests that the clothes matter more.
02-25-16, 08:21 AM
#93
fuggitivo solitario
tight jerseys. better yet, a tight one-sie.
aero road helmet is one of those "it depends" sort of things. May be placebo for you or may actually help.
aero road helmet is one of those "it depends" sort of things. May be placebo for you or may actually help.
02-25-16, 08:46 AM
#94
Senior Member
I don't think I'm pro enough for the onesie just yet. I was thinking of getting one or two new jerseys so I think I'll opt for an 'aero' one, at least to see how comfy they are. Is there such a thing as 'aero bibs?' I mean, I am sure someone sells them, but aren't all shorts skin tight anyway? Not planning on buying any, just curious.
02-25-16, 09:06 AM
#95
Nonsense
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Meh, if you buy the entirely wrong size they might be baggy? The advantage to riding in nice shorts is they're more comfortable. The extra money you spend on em will lighten your wallet a few grams too I guess.
02-25-16, 09:27 AM
#96
Senior Member
And your implication, in general, is wrong.
Deal with it.
Last edited by grolby; 02-25-16 at 09:36 AM.
02-25-16, 10:09 AM
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I don't think I'm pro enough for the onesie just yet. I was thinking of getting one or two new jerseys so I think I'll opt for an 'aero' one, at least to see how comfy they are. Is there such a thing as 'aero bibs?' I mean, I am sure someone sells them, but aren't all shorts skin tight anyway? Not planning on buying any, just curious.
02-25-16, 10:37 AM
#98
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Would be fun/nice to see a video of you actually riding
02-25-16, 11:10 AM
#99
Senior Member
This is a video that another rider took, he let me incorporate it into my video. It's about the only clip I know of where I have the stem/bars.
1:37, red/black kit
5:12
Then of course 20:35 or so.
Huh, I didn't know he had part of the cool down lap up.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
02-25-16, 11:52 AM
#100
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I didn't know there was a forward-bar rule for road bikes. I really haven't looked so I probably will at some point. I guess for me it's just an exercise to see how close I can get to the UCI rules. Realistically I'll never line up for a UCI rule race, and my bike is okay for USAC.
The stuff I've noticed are things that officials have told me at races, meaning "You know that's not UCI legal". The things that got pointed out to me are the rear wheel clearance on the black bike (negligible, like a credit card won't fit between the tire and the seat tube with a 23c tire which is apparently illegal), the drops being too low, and the saddle being way too far forward, i.e. nose in front of BB / negative setback.
The stuff I've noticed are things that officials have told me at races, meaning "You know that's not UCI legal". The things that got pointed out to me are the rear wheel clearance on the black bike (negligible, like a credit card won't fit between the tire and the seat tube with a 23c tire which is apparently illegal), the drops being too low, and the saddle being way too far forward, i.e. nose in front of BB / negative setback.
