Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Early morning training rides: bad performance

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Early morning training rides: bad performance

Old 03-08-16, 05:23 PM
  #1  
nemeseri
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 465

Bikes: Trek Emonda SL build, CAAD10, Bianchi Pista '13, Litespeed Antares '03

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Early morning training rides: bad performance

So lately I noticed that I have terrible performance during early morning training sessions. I was thinking that there is something else to it, but after months of training I can tell that I find myself suffering more during early morning training sessions. My HR is much higher for the same power than in the afternoon. I try to wake up early and eat something with a lot of crabs, but still find myself suffering like a dog. Obviously it gets worse if I didn't sleep well or had a hard day before.

Is this common? What should I do with it? Any tips?
nemeseri is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 05:30 PM
  #2  
TheKillerPenguin
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,822

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 383 Times in 172 Posts
Yeah I used to eat a lot of crabs before workouts too, but I find scarfing a tin of sardines before hopping on the bike seems to work better for me and it's wayyyyy cheaper.
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 05:35 PM
  #3  
Ygduf
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
take 4mg/kg caffeine about an hour before. it doesn't matter what time of day it is.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 06:04 PM
  #4  
Hermes
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 12,502

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 294 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1000 Post(s)
Liked 1,199 Times in 753 Posts
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
Yeah I used to eat a lot of crabs before workouts too, but I find scarfing a tin of sardines before hopping on the bike seems to work better for me and it's wayyyyy cheaper.
Plus

Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
take 4mg/kg caffeine about an hour before. it doesn't matter what time of day it is.
=

Hermes is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 08:00 PM
  #5  
Wylde06
Senior Member
 
Wylde06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 2,208

Bikes: Cannondale Six13

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 21 Posts
This turned into gold.
Wylde06 is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 08:23 PM
  #6  
wens
Senior Member
 
wens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That's a lot of caffeine, no? At 20ish mg/8 Oz (top of my head, this may be the mismatch), that's like 16 ounces of coffee first thing in the morning

I solved this problem by refusing to do early workouts, and arranging my life accordingly, but I realize that's not always a solution that will work with other people's priorities.
wens is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 08:31 PM
  #7  
ypsetihw
Senior Member
 
ypsetihw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,109

Bikes: s-1

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 221 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
maybe eating too much? try riding fasted, I do it all the time. it's awesome, I feel light and snappy, and i feel like my mind is sharper. plus it's good if you want to lose weight. fasted training is ******, try it. it really gets your endorphin levels going
ypsetihw is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 08:34 PM
  #8  
Ygduf
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by wens View Post
That's a lot of caffeine, no? At 20ish mg/8 Oz (top of my head, this may be the mismatch), that's like 16 ounces of coffee first thing in the morning

I solved this problem by refusing to do early workouts, and arranging my life accordingly, but I realize that's not always a solution that will work with other people's priorities.
that's my race dosage of caffeine. it's a lot, yes, and tablets are better than drinking half a gallon of coffee and then trying to ride.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 09:05 PM
  #9  
aaronmcd
Senior Member
 
aaronmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 3,462

Bikes: Cervelo S5, Marin Gestalt X11

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 45 Posts
A typical caffeine pill is 200mg.

I work out in the am, and can never get out the door within 45 minutes of waking up. I take caffeine first thing, eat a bowl of simple carb cereal and a glass of oj, and get dressed. I bum around long enough to get the blood flowing and warm up enough to head out the door. I guess a few sets of burpees would do the trick, but that's not something I want to do at 5:20 am in a 3rd floor studio apartment with a sleeping wife.
aaronmcd is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 09:58 PM
  #10  
nemeseri
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 465

Bikes: Trek Emonda SL build, CAAD10, Bianchi Pista '13, Litespeed Antares '03

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
Thank you guys for the advise. I will definitely try the caffeine pill, but I was a little worried that too much caffeine would make my high HR even higher, but I will give it a try.

I never eat a lot. I usually eat something sweet and light, so that shouldn't be the problem.
nemeseri is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 10:34 PM
  #11  
Heathpack 
Has a magic bike
 
Heathpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590

Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone

Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 157 Posts
Maybe if you are getting up extra early to eat something, you are just not getting enough sleep. Or maybe you're not a morning person.

Like @ypsetihw, I do all my morning workouts fasted. But I'm on the bike way early, like 4 or 5 am, no way could I lose any more sleep to eat prior. One cup of black coffee and I'm out the door.
Heathpack is offline  
Old 03-08-16, 11:44 PM
  #12  
aaronmcd
Senior Member
 
aaronmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 3,462

Bikes: Cervelo S5, Marin Gestalt X11

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 45 Posts
Eating is faster than coffee.
aaronmcd is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 12:05 AM
  #13  
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,398
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1095 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by nemeseri View Post
So lately I noticed that I have terrible performance during early morning training sessions. I was thinking that there is something else to it, but after months of training I can tell that I find myself suffering more during early morning training sessions. My HR is much higher for the same power than in the afternoon. I try to wake up early and eat something with a lot of crabs, but still find myself suffering like a dog. Obviously it gets worse if I didn't sleep well or had a hard day before.

Is this common? What should I do with it? Any tips?
What are you eating, and how soon before you ride?

For me, I just do a (small) bowl of granola or oats & coffee before the ride. If I did a full on huevos rancheros breakfast right before a ride, it'd probably end up on the street.
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 05:58 AM
  #14  
Heathpack 
Has a magic bike
 
Heathpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590

Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone

Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 157 Posts
Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
Eating is faster than coffee.
I'm actually riding fasted intentionally.
Heathpack is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 06:19 AM
  #15  
canuckbelle
Senior Member
 
canuckbelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 944

Bikes: Scott Foil 10, Di2

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bodies are different and weird. It's taken me *years* of teaching my body how to perform in the morning. I generally never eat before a morning ride. I have 1-2 cups of coffee. And I usually need to be up 2hrs before I start my ride (3 if I can swing it).

Pretty much no one can jump out of bed and be on the bike <30min and perform well.
canuckbelle is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 07:31 AM
  #16  
globecanvas
Ninny
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Gunks
Posts: 5,294
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by canuckbelle View Post
Bodies are different
Agree.


Originally Posted by canuckbelle View Post
Pretty much no one can jump out of bed and be on the bike <30min and perform well.
Disagree.
globecanvas is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 07:33 AM
  #17  
canuckbelle
Senior Member
 
canuckbelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 944

Bikes: Scott Foil 10, Di2

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Disagree that it's rare? A couple counterexamples are consistent with the claim. The '3hr rule' is a very common sports physiology recommendation.
canuckbelle is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 08:13 AM
  #18  
ypsetihw
Senior Member
 
ypsetihw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,109

Bikes: s-1

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 221 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
just a thought, but this came up in a couple other threads in the last couple months - 2 things to watch out for or have checked by your doctor:

1) overtraining - stress of training can easily accumulate over the period of a couple weeks, and if you aren't hydrating enough, sleeping enough, or taking enough days off, you can slowly wind yourself into a black hole of feeling like crap for no apparent reason. this isn't like bonking or having sore muscles, it happens slowly and grinds on you until you wake up one day and just aren't feeling it, and if it goes unchecked it can last for a long time. it happened to me last summer and I just couldn't shake it until I took a few days off the bike, and ate and slept a lot. it hit the reset button for me and I felt like a million bucks.

2)pre-diabetes - consider getting your blood sugar profile checked by your doctor. diabetes runs in my mother's family and my doctor was concerned that perhaps my lack of energy and general fatigue and fogginess was due to out of control blood sugar numbers. turns out it wasn't, thank god, but it was good to get it checked out and establish a baseline for my body to track over time. it could be that over night your blood sugar is crashing which is causing you to feel like crap, and then leading to a cycle of blood sugar peaks and valleys after your high carb breakfast followed by a high intensity workout.
ypsetihw is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 08:16 AM
  #19  
therhodeo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tulsa OK
Posts: 2,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I wake up at 5, piss, put on clothes, pour my coffee, and get on the bike about 5:10. I may be a bit sluggish at the start but after 15 minutes or so I'm pretty much as weak as I am at any other part of the day.
therhodeo is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 08:20 AM
  #20  
TMonk
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 11,999

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1258 Post(s)
Liked 1,049 Times in 556 Posts
I'm a morning person that has been riding within 30-45min of waking up for years, it's kinda my routine.

Another option is to only train and test in the morning so you don't actually know if you're better at other times .
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is online now  
Old 03-09-16, 08:26 AM
  #21  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,401
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 891 Post(s)
Liked 698 Times in 322 Posts
Originally Posted by therhodeo View Post
I wake up at 5, piss, put on clothes, pour my coffee, and get on the bike about 5:10. I may be a bit sluggish at the start but after 15 minutes or so I'm pretty much as weak as I am at any other part of the day.
how do you down a cup of coffee in less than ten?
gsteinb is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 08:31 AM
  #22  
therhodeo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tulsa OK
Posts: 2,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
how do you down a cup of coffee in less than ten?
Its cold. I put down half right when I pour it and the other half while I'm on the trainer.
therhodeo is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 08:38 AM
  #23  
TheKillerPenguin
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,822

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 383 Times in 172 Posts
So...I'm the only one here that drinks coffee while on the trainer...?
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 08:45 AM
  #24  
wens
Senior Member
 
wens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
So...I'm the only one here that drinks coffee while on the trainer...?
I've done iced aeropress or cold brew before.
wens is offline  
Old 03-09-16, 08:50 AM
  #25  
beatlebee 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: ?
Posts: 2,300

Bikes: i may have bike(s)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Up at 4:30, coffee, and then on the rollers by 5:30. Helps to be a morning person that is in bed by 8 pm typically.
beatlebee is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.