Socrates72

What do I need to do as far as choosing races? Got training under control, progression looks good. Any advice here?

Thanks guys

mattm

I assume the short answer is get noticed.

And I assume you can do that by winning/placing at big stage races like Gila, Cascade, etc.

How old are you?

carpediemracing 

Anecdotal as I'm no conti pro. Locally there are two guys that race for continental pro teams (not sure if one had a contract for this year, other definitely did). Both won big races, getting themselves noticed. In one case he tore apart two conti pro teammates on his own, twice.

Rider One - won two races early on in a big way, soloing away from current continental pros. One he went about 40 of 50 laps solo, the other he methodically and singlehandedly dismantled a very strong break to solo the last few laps of a 50 mile crit. The conti pros (he beat the same guys both times, both have had pro national titles, both are relatively well known domestically) put in a word for him, he got hired. Got 3rd at U23 TT, I think last year? He put down over 490w for the TT, and in Tour of CA this year he did 450w for the first hour of the queen stage (and ended up in the 2nd autobus group). Meaning he's incredibly strong. He rode the front for his team in a couple stage races where a teammate had the overall GC lead. He's also pretty involved with social media, on Pez, local papers, etc, so he gets his sponsors names out. Finally he's a good guy, super approachable, so a plus if/when it comes to media/PR, etc. He got re-hired by his current team after being cut a couple years ago.

Rider Two - I think he had 5 national titles as a Junior, crit and cross. He seems to be connected, is friends with current pros. Obviously strong, he's not quite as overtly strong as Rider One but he quietly gets the job done. Much quieter social media, aka non-existent on FB, I don't see stuff in the paper or online about him even though he lives a few miles away. I don't even know if he has a pro contract this year (personally I haven't been to the races much this year). I Googled him just now, seems he is not on a team this year.

I think a huge thing is the added value bit, the stuff off the bike. Okay, fine, win the races. But then now you're just one a dozens of race winners looking for a contract. There are a lot of strong riders out there that never had contracts because they were really hard to get along with or they were socially not as strong. A team may have a choice of choosing between a few strong riders. They're going to pick the one that gets along with the others, presents a great face for sponsors, etc.

topflightpro

This would be my assumption as well. I know several people on continental teams. Most won, or placed very highly in, a lot of races at the regional and national level. Some dominated the junior circuits - landing on national teams and racing junior worlds.

Winning a lot of local races probably isn't going to cut it. I know several people who dominate the local races, but the minute they get to a bigger race end up as pack fill.

Grumpy McTrumpy

We have a guy in the local club who did this (back when domestic pros made a decent salary). If I get a chance I'll ask him what he did to get noticed. There was another guy who came up in our club and went from cat 1 to conti (in the current era). It helped a LOT when he won the elite nats criterium, but I think he primarily got on board via networking with people he met in collegiate and elite teams. He since decided that the pro life isn't for him. I guess both of them did.

furiousferret

I can tell you how to get from cat 5 to 4 but past mandatory upgrades I got nothing.

Some of our local 1's jump on teams that have open spots at Redlands, my guess is do that and essentially follow around Continental teams; I'm pretty sure regardless of how well you do at the local races, its not going to impress them. Race with them and get noticed.

Socrates72

Does amateur nationals have any REAL weight to it? I know several guys in the top 20 and they honestly aren't that talented.

From my understanding about tours like GILA & Cascade do you not have to be on a pro team already?

My understanding of the hierarchy here is:

Pro Tour - D1

Pro Continental - D2

Continental - D3 ( domestic pro team with no guaranteed salary)

CAT 1

How does a CAT 1 make that jump to Domestic Pro team? Seems at though you cannot get into the big races unless you are ALREADY ON one of those teams to begin with... Women CAT 1 can compete with Pro's at USAC Nats... From my understanding MEN cannot compete at USAC Nationals unless they are one of those pro teams, left to compete at amateur nationals... which doesn't seem like it holds much weight? maybe I am wrong? is Amateur nationals the ticket?

furiousferret

You should read Phil Gaimon's book, which goes through the same progression you're asking about.

I'd also try to find a mentor who's already there that can help you out. If you're in California it shouldn't be too hard (can't speak for other regions).

mattm

Any cat 1 can definitely do the "pro" race at Cascade, not sure about Gila but I think the same.

Redlands would be another one to go to, but you need to be on a team, even a composite team, to do it.

And I can't think that winning amateur Nats wouldn't hurt.. if those guys aren't that talented you should be able to beat them easily!

canuckbelle

North Star Grand Prix and Gatineau are two others.

spectastic

so is D3 like an internship with a team without guaranteed salary, and D2 is where you actually sign a contract if you make the cut?

also, where do development teams come in? do they get paid or are they cat 1's?

don't some cat 1's also get paid?

curious

spectastic

check out the resumes of some of the new riders on this team.
https://www.jellybelly.com/pro-cycling-team

globecanvas

+1

tetonrider

gila is more like redlands in that regard. teams are invited. it's not that hard to get on a composite team, though (from friends who have done it). basically...you just have to be a cat 1.

i think cascade *used to* be like this a while back.

gila has a p/1 and a 1/2 race.

mattm

That's interesting - one guy won the Enumclaw stage race (local stage races in WA), I'm surprised this made the cut.

I won the cat 3 crit at Enumclaw once! Sorry, had to brag.

Anyway the list of races on that page is probably a perfect indication of what it takes to get noticed by the teams. Place at Cascade, Green Mtn, Gila, Beauce, etc.

Socrates72

Haha, yeah that sounded bad. Didn't mean to come off like that! My point was that I know a handful of guys in the top 20 or so at Amateur Nats and they descent but not great and placed high in the top 20 and no one seems to be on a D3 ( continental team ) after their placing. Didn't mean to come off as a jack @$$ lol

mattm

I don't think placing 6th through 20th would get you much at Nats, but 1st through 5th would.

Local guy got 3rd in the RR nats a few years ago and went ~pro (IRC team, folded I think) the next year. It seemed like the only big result he had besides local crit results before that.

I think he's unattached now though.

Socrates72

Can a CAT 1 on like a local regional competitive club ride in those bigger tours though?

mattm

Cascade yes, for others like Gila & Redlands you have to get on a composite team (which could just be 4 or more cat 1s, not a real team).

Oh yeah and San Dimas too, any cat 1 can do the "pro" race.

Beauce might be an exception, in that you have to be invited/be on a team to do it.

Anyway if you follow this formula I bet you could go pro:
1) win local p/1/2 races
2) win/place at 'big' races like San Dimas, Cascade, Joe Martin, etc
3) win/place at NCC crits
4) win amateur nationals
5) PROFIT

The other detail here is are we talking just crits or RRs too? I don't think any real pro team cares too much about crits, except for UHC. Most of the other teams seem to focus on getting in to big stage races like Tour of Cali, Colorado Pro-whatever-its-called, etc.

There are teams & riders like Daniel Holloway, the Williams bros, etc, who focus on crits, which is a different scene/set of teams from stage race pros. And to get on those teams, you would only need to focus on crits I guess.

Best of luck!

furiousferret

Yes, for Redlands at least there's some sort of sign up sheet for Composite riders. My neighbor got a spot on a Continental team, and he's on a regular non pro team (though he gets nice perks). One of our female riders who rides for KHS rides for a Continental team just during that race. There is also sometimes a composite team full of composite riders.

The teams pick you though, so you have to have something to offer.

canuckbelle

I was on a composite for North Star, but I knew the team director and the core team members. The rest of the team was filled out with people who just asked to be in the race, looking for a composite team, and the race organizers contacted team directors to see who could have more riders.

spectastic

a composite team is one of those ____ p/b ____ type teams?

canuckbelle

No, a team that you guest ride for. I got a release from my ex-team to guest ride for QCW (the domestic elite team I rode with).

spectastic

first i'll work on the legs. then, I'll work on the lingo.

Doge

Dad view:

Is that your final goal?

If not - I'd skip it. Or I'd tell my son to skip it.
Move to Europe and race there. Get on a Devo team.

If it is your final goal and you have a money making occupation then @mattm has the response I'd agree with.
Find the PRT Road races - start there. Guest if you need to.

Other than Tulsa Tough - stay away from anything that says Crit

If you do not have a career and it is your final goal - get the career first.