wphamilton

Doge, no extensions or elbow supports for road races, right? Would a largish computer mount in the right place be allowed, that a person might rest his elbow or forearm?

Doge

The MASI setup works fine and was raced this weekend. I'm not recommending it others than a tinker project where nobody else touches your bike, you are on the lighter side, and you don't pack it. To make it work it helps to have a one piece bar stem and route through the stem (Ritchey Solo Stream). I have a smaller expander in the steer tube and drilled a small hole below expander and above bottom stem clamp into the steer tube and another hole out the other side about 1 in lower exiting the rear of the steer tube into the rather cavernous MASI head tube/down tube area. There it is straight forward routing. The A J box was on the seatpost top, but it is going to the bar end using the new 9100 A Jbox. The battery will still be near BB. FWIW with climbing wheels this is now a Di2 12.5# bike. As I posted Power Cordz are a smoother easier route than braided cables. They really want a traditional brake bolt to wrap around rather than a set screw found in some straight delta-like brakes.

Doge

Generally to hold yes, to rest on no. This was a VOS TT thing done by several juniors. Mine didn't like it. All the mass start bike TTs seem to have vague rules. I think you have to show up and see. Even in "real" UCI ITTs they usually provide hours or day before to get bikes inspected, setup. So getting it right will be challenging. I'm basically going with is it a USAC mass start legal bike - yes. Is it a UCI legal bike - yes (if tape is removed).

-"no aero bars" generally means no clip on bars, but they may interpret it to mean round bars.
-"no aero bars with forearm support" generally means the same as above but may be viewed as no padding for the IAB position...which is what everyone is using anyway.

So they really made the rules make things less safe than allowing clip-on. Disallowing padding is like disallowing padding on tape. If they are trying to say keep your hands on the bars, good luck enforcing that.

We were testing yesterday. The bike is very very fast. Junior was doing a few 35mph runs on his big person gears. As I stated before while most competitors are "just college kids" one of his main ones will be Brandon's Rally teammate. College can get very pro along with the just college kids.

wphamilton

If he's good with control with so little leverage like that it doesn't matter, but I was imagining a solidly mounted computer somewhere in line with his forearms, that just happened to be another contact point to improve control. Maybe even outside of his elbow or arm, not to rest on but against. Extended as much as you can get away with.

abhirama

I recently had an experience where my 6800 rear shifter chewed off the cable and it was so frayed that I couldn't even get the cable head out. I had to open the shifter up, remove a 100 small bits of the cable and only then could put a new cable in. I swore to get etap soon. I would have preferred Di2 but my frame isn't Di2 compatible :-(

Doge

Yea, for him, it does not matter. In full TT mode there is very little need to touch the bars.
I went to take a picture of the big Rec Mounts (really big) bracket we had on the Cannodale EVO to find it gone. The EVO gone. Seems I had a bike stolen. Not feeling so good about that right now.

Doge

With a Dremel tool every frame is Di2 compatible.

abhirama

Yeah, I've read instances of people having success with that but I'm too scared to do it!

Harlan

What frame is it? That's a minor detail. I've retrofitted a few that came out before Di2 was sold.

bbbean 

Or zip ties and tape if you're squeamish.

abhirama

The frame is a Canyon Aeroad.

rubiksoval

Anyone know for certain if the Elite Crono Aero Bottle is mass start legal? I'm pretty sure I've seen a guy use them in crits, but it's not the most noticeable thing and you could get away with it I'm sure if it isn't legal.

Doing a 5 mile TT and all equipment has to be mass-start legal, so would love to run these bottles as I already have two.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...M:&vet=1&w=969

jsk

Product description says they're UCI legal. I'm not aware of any additional restrictions for mass start regarding bottles, I can't imagine why they would be prohibited unless it's a 'Mercx' TT where aero wheels etc are prohibited.

Doge

For USAC - there are no rules on shape for aero. Only rules on wheel space, geometry, main tubes.
For UCI - measure width and length. Length cannot exceed 3:1 - on any part where the length is not part of the function (no way to explain the whole thing in a couple sentences).

Glancing at it - it looks fine.
Consider for practical reasons of taking feeds that round is better. But for crits/TTs that is fine.

All the above being true to the best of my understanding, certain sub groups in USAC (and other countries) - juniors, collegiate make their own rules. These are often vague and sometimes made-up on the spot or determined by the referee on site. As the ref is the final decision, fine with me, but sometimes you may have to send a picture, or have plan B lined up (so take a normal cage and bottle with you).

TMonk

I wouldn't bother taking water for a 5 mi TT. Did the TT at VoS sans water and was OK (~30 min).

mike868y

if aero frames are allowed in mercx tts (they are ime) I can't imagine how these wouldn't be allowed.

hack

But in the spirit of aero, sometimes the aero bottle can make the frame faster.

rubiksoval

They'll be empty. They are almost the same width as the downtube/seattube and fill the bottom part of the main triangle very nicely.

And...dimples.

rubiksoval

The only rules are that it's mass start legal. So will just run the same setup as I'll do in the previous night's crit: bike, skinsuit, Specialized Evade...plus velotoze and the bottles.

Thanks guys!

Doge

The FELT Di2 is more aero with a water bottle (the aero one) than without. It is best ridden empty.

Doge

The bike in post 202, was turned into mass start legal in post 208 and is the one going 35mph in 228.

I do not believe Velotoze are faster than an aero shoe/shaved leg. Tough call on that.

TMonk

Cool info on all on the bottle - I had no idea that they could improve aerodynamics, but it makes sense!

Doge

So I know all the racer types know this, but recently I've been having this discussion on forum and on road. And I see so many racers with slammed stems/bars doing it wrong (not BF folks of course).

Sometimes (sometimes) raising your bars is more aero.

Here is best aero fit. Get torso in most aero position that can be held for 30 min or so (another topic).
Make forearms parallel to ground - facing forward. Adjust bar height and tilt to support hands on/behind hoods and resting on bar.
That is the most aero position for hands on bars when you include body and equipment. Hands on drops is less aero. If the bar is lower than what is needed to have forearms parallel to ground, that is less aero.

And - shave your arms, or cover them.

spectastic

anyone know where they have a chart that quantitatively lists the benefits of upgrading different parts of the bike/rider, combined with their cost in $/watts saved?

all the ones that I've found are more for TT

would be nice to have a comprehensive list of how much savings can be had for things like:

shaving legs
aero position
aero wheels
aero frame
handlebars
helmet
form fitting jersey
etc.

rubiksoval

Thread about this the other day on slowtwitch.
Aerodynamic Hierarchy: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

Referenced this, but it's about 7 years old:

Speed For Sale

I want to say bikeradar or someone had another similar chart that was a bit more recent, but I can't find it.