TheKillerPenguin

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

LordOpie

all the ones who haven't been proven to use illegal/banned substances?

TheKillerPenguin

bah, that doesn't count. I'm talking about the standup guys who willingly submit to more stringent tests, the ones that don't put any drugs illegal or legal into their system (except maybe a tylonel once and a while). The ones that are 100% natural cycling machines.

Are there any?

See this thread, if you want to know what inspired me https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...26#post1256926

my58vw

Wait wait, look what you are saying, nothing!?

I am of an interesting thought on this... if something is being replaced that is not in the body then I would still consider them 100% natural. Also what about the stuff in sports drink?

Legal and Illegal are two different stories!

TheKillerPenguin

I mean performance enhancing drugs, injecting other's blood into you, whatever tricks they use other than eating well and drinking the right things to replenish what is lost.

What's so shocking about it? Pros, IMO, should be expected to be drug free, regardless of whether or not the drug is banned. Is it so much to ask that a person's edge is gained through hard work rather than injections?

You of course are an exception, vw, as you have a deficiency in hormones that will be heightened to normal levels. What would not be right, however, is if you were at normal levels already and then raised those levels even more. Get what I'm saying?

Devil

Hold on while I consult my vast archive of video surveillance on every single pro rider in the peloton.

my58vw

Oh ya, got it, EPO is bad on any level, I agree with that. Suplimenting your body with things natural should not be in the same catagory as illegal steriods, etc.

I think every pro (and racer at any level for that) should be illegal baned drug free. It is just part of being a good sport.

ed073

Dunno.

Ask one.

Smoothie104

"being a good sport" goes out the window as soon as there is money involved.

Clean Pro Sports is a myth.


Your logic is flawed a bit.

EPO is a naturally occuring substance by the way, you can also buy it at any CVS or Walgreens pharmacy, you just need a prescription.

The testosterone the docs are going to put you on, happens to be an illegal steroid, unless you have a prescription. Your dosage will determine its performance enhancing effects. How are you going to figure out what is fair?

my58vw

Anything that is used in excess I guess is banned then. I would think EPO would be only useful then if you are low on it in your body... that is why a perscription is needed... the funny thing is couldn't any doctor hired my a team then just perscribe it to you even if you did not need it (against the law I know but)... or so they need to show lab tests, etc.

In part I am asking this question for me although I am not a pro...

Smoothie104

Some stuff is banned only in excess, like caffine, or ephidrine. Other stuff is banned outright.

No one is going to get a TUE for EPO, no way... (Theraputic Use Exemption form).

Its a specifically banned substance by WADA, the IOC, etc...


Most of the TUE, or prescriptions in the riders medical books are for ashtma medications, bhroncial dialators, anti inflammatories,etc. These used to have to be approved by the UCI only, but now WADA is starting to look at them harder, because some if not most of them are bogus. Plus, they are not always what they seem. Guys will get a prescription for a topical cortisone cream that shows up on the tests the same as some corticosteroid injections, which are strictly forbidden.


The problem with synthetic testosterone is that its indistinquishable from the natually occuring hormone. The only way to test for it is looking at the level and the ratio of epitosterone. There is a wide window to play around in. One doctors opinion of normal levels will be different than anothers, and if it's the team doctor, you can bet his idea of a normal level is right below the cutoff. Before the skin patches, and transdermal gels/creams you used to have to inject it, the testers would look for spikes in your levels to try and determine who was cheating. The new delivery systems make it easier to take micro doses which keeps the levels stable.

The athletes are always several steps ahead. It's all bad.

my58vw

I guess that I am just a little nieve on the subject. I go out an punish my body day after day to get stronger, knowing I am fighting with what little I have, then I learn that my body is actually missing something that a guy should have. I then think that everyone out there is just clean and nothing bad happens, everyone is a good sport.

I am sure on my level that is true, I really can not wait to "shoot legal testosterone" into my body and see how I start feeling because of it. I know it will make me stronger. I read posts like this and can not help but think... am I doping then, I am just trying to screw with what God has given me... but I know it is normal.

I guess it is true, many pros are just driven by money and not sportsmanship. While I will probably never be pro (I am not saying never because who knows what can happen), but I could never see myself taking some banned substance for sport, I enjoy natural life too much!

Smoothie104

You will probably never be tested at a cycling event, but I wouldn't be broadcasting your condition/medication to everyone at the races or club rides. Just keep it to yourself, it is a private matter. Not everyone loves a drama queen.

You probably wont be shooting anything, they will give you a cream, Just promise us that if they give you a patch you have to stick on your nuts, that you wont put it in your signature, or make it your avatar....

my58vw

Agreed, I am not broadcasting it all over training rides or at races, in that context there is only one thing on my ride, the race itself. It actually is an injectable, at least that is what the doctor says, and no I will not share where or how much etc etc... that is a little too much information, although I know exactly where it will happen... but I will not say...

But what is normal about me!?

I do not care if people know I have a condition or not, awareness is the key here, although nothing will probably ever happen to cure it for sure.

Smoothie104

Is that a trick question, lol

my58vw

It is the question I ask myself everyday...

Is it so normal for someone to be so enthuistic about something that it becomes the focal point of the day, everyday.

Is it normal for a guy to be so emotional, not interested in certain things in life, etc.

I do not like norms, they tend to throw people in the little box of averages. I will not be a statistic, I will not be one of those guys who throws in the towl when things do not go right the first time, etc.

TheKillerPenguin

Yeah, truthfully I have mixed feelings about all of that. If testosterone is given, I wouldn't even know where to say "that's a normal amount", such as in cases as vw's. Also, I'm mixed as to whether or not one should be allowed to be a pro unless they are squeaky clean, IE, what you're born with is what you show up with, no meds for asthma or testosterone injections, etc. However, as you've said in other posts in the thread, they do allow perscriptions for asthma, so I think that getting testosterone injections would be akin to asthma medication, in that both are used to return the body to a state of normalcy for a male.

Can't asthma medications be used to simply open up the bronchii, a sort of quick way to allow for more oxygen exchange? And if so, how is that different than testosterone injections, in that how is dosage figured out to return the patient to a state of acceptible normalcy? If that is the case, then can't the acceptible amount of testosterone injected be figured out according to the same types of guidelines that are set up for the asthma meds?

Then, I suppose, you get into the realm of corrective surgeries, IE, if you're banning substances that keep people with deficiancies from being returned to a state of normalcy, so too should those who have underwent corrective surgery to be returned to a state of normalcy be banned from competition.

Too much gray area.

BLISS

There are some, I was told Brad McGee is supposedly clean.
One of the most successful who was clean was Charly Mottet I met him once when and told him that I respected him more than any other rider because he never gave in to the temptation or pressure from anybody to dope despite everybody around him doing it. One of our coaches rode on the same Team as him for two year and said he was very quiet but very strong willed if he said no you did not ask him twice.
But he always had a bad day’s or two during the Tour de France.
Also on the Pro section of our Team there are two that I know don’t’ take anything they are first year pro’s so it will be intresting if they make a second year contract.
The rest take something even if that something has not been banned yet.
Very few get caught by testing if they do sombody has made a mistake

BLISS

roadbuzz

No way to tell. There are simply those that have passed all tests, and those that haven't. My assumption is that pretty much all pros at the top of the sport dope one way or another.

roadwarrior

Aspirin? Anacin has caffeine...

Caffeine?? Drinking coffee is a drug...

these are "drugs"

what's your point?

roadwarrior

I suspect that....

You have a job

It will never be cycling

Aspire to Cat 4?

Race for 45 minutes to an hour once a week, at best?

You can get away with that...but if you were about to loose your job, and your ability to pay your bills, you MIGHT (note I did not say you WOULD, but MIGHT) be tempted to cheat somehow to avoid the grim reaper. Domestique riders, for the amount of work they do, are not really well paid in comparison to, say, the NBA.

That's what happens...in the NFL, in MLB, in MLS, in track and field, and in cycling.

It's not right...but people are human.

roadwarrior

Like when you are going through chemotherapy.

classic1

Yep

You have to pretty damn sick to be prescribed EPO

Voodoo76

And if you are a Domestique, (and that is a large percentage of the peleton), you take what you are given and shut up. Don't ask questions. Keep in mind that for a vast majority of riders we are talking about a business that chews them up, spits them out, and goes on to the next in line.

gcasillo

I had a wicked case of mono when I was a senior in high school. I was put on steroids to reduce inflammation in my liver. I don't know about different forms of steroids, but the particular one I was given was known to cause insomnia among other side effects.

I didn't sleep one minute for three days. For all I know, I have a perfectly functioning liver, but I would be happy to never go through that **** again. Suffice to say, I don't care for medicine of any sort.