scheibo

mattm races P12 fields instead of masters and wants everyone to respect that fact. i personally have no clue how good masters fields are in general, but P12 crits look hard so i'm always impressed mattm can place in them, regardless of his age.

mattm

There is that, but I think the flip-side is a lot of strong people are scared to actually try actual races, due to the risks involved. Damage the body, bike, and ego have been known to occur on a regular basis.

mattm

I've won both fields, so I think I'm allowed to say Masters is easier.

Don't get me wrong; Masters races aren't easy per se, but easier than p1/2 fields, in my experience. Masters 35-39 nationals was a cake walk compared to Elite (cat 1) nationals, hands-down.

Again, (I think) that's why Masters is even a thing in the first place.

topflightpro

I didn't say all masters races were easier than 1/2 races. I said at our winter series races, the masters race is often the hardest race of the day. I also pointed out that most of the 1/2/3 guys do the masters and/or 3/4 race first, so the 1/2/3 is their second race of the day.

carpediemracing 

There are a number of (Cat 3) racers that are far superior to me that... well, let's say that most racers of any Category are far superior to me in actual strength, but there are a number of racers that are so strong that in the end they can annihilate me regardless of all my tricks. And a few of them are really good guys off the bike, very respectful, I'd welcome them to sit down at my dinner table. Others... not so much.

carpediemracing 

@mattm +1

carpediemracing 

This goes back to that "if you're racing masters you shouldn't be getting a TUE for test because the fact is that as you get older you naturally lose a bunch of it." Masters racing should be easier, but the reality is that as a group the ability/commitment/aggression only drops off after the first few age groups. There are plenty of Masters Cat 1s that are competitive in a P1 race but I'd bet there aren't as many on a given day as there are actual P1s, like at Nationals.

When I did an M30 race (it used to be a thing) it was insane, was like a P123 race during its "on" bit but for the whole race. M35, less insane, but the hard bits were just as hard as any P123 race I've done, just not as long, like less than 49 out of 50 laps (P123). Maybe closer to 25-27 out of 30 laps on. M40, less insane, and for me close to a hard Cat 3 race, maybe 5 laps off out of 20 or 25. M45, manageable for me, probably 5-10 on laps out of 25. Those are all semi-guesses but I definitely remember a few P123 races where it was lined up for the entire race except for half a lap here and half a lap there, out of 50 laps.

If I had my 25 year old sprint right now I'd feel invincible in the 3s. I just need to combine it with my slightly stronger resilience in races (I got shelled less easily as I got older). In Masters I can hold my own except for certain riders. In the 3s I'm just an average sprinter now.

TMonk

Around here, the 35+ is always the second fastest field, behind P/1/2 of course.

Hell, even the 45+ is faster than cat 3 sometimes

TMonk

I like to race because it's fun, and social - which is important to me. I'm big on participation; driving an hour or more one-way to compete in a crit by myself isn't too appealing to me anymore. I joined the San Diego Bicycle Club two years back which has big participation at every category level, and it's great. It's fun to have a plan with some teammates/buddies, and try to execute. It doesn't always work, but when it does, it's awesome. Other times, the best part of the experience is getting a beer (or two) at a local brewery with the squad afterward .

Personally I haven't raced FTW in a long time. I've got the legs to really apply myself for personal glory in races, but I've got a few issues:

1) I'm jaded. I know I can get to cat 2 with my 1200+ w 5 s and 1000 + 20s, but I don't really belong in P/1/2 fields with my available time and talent - I simply wouldn't be competitive.

2) I enjoy helping teammates and making a difference in races. Again, plans don't always work, but I'm very happy to go on the attack/chase something down/perform a leadout, which I do, all the time. And I get props for it, which makes me feel good. People are stoked when I'm racing for them because they know I can apply myself and lend a hand. In a club as big as SDBC there are always people moving through the ranks so this will never diminish.

3) I'm beginning to become more risk adverse. I don't have the same killer instinct and laser sharp focus that I used to in those last few laps. As a cat 4 I won three races and got a few more podiums in sprint finishes. People divebombing, chopping wheels etc. is starting to freak me out. I'll go for it a few times late this season if it plays out, but if I begin to feel unsafe, I usually prefer to string it out and not participate.

The last one is a big one for me, and is one reason why I feel that I have a limited career in road racing. The crashes are too frequent, and too dangerous. There are some races I simply wont do any more (Dana Point) for this reason. I've got marriage and children in my short-term radar and I don't need to deal with being debilitated for a while.

I'll still ride and train on the road of course as long as I can find reasonably safe venues to do so, and potentially move to other competitive disciplines like track, CX, MTB, hell, even TT!