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Is it common to give Primes to a chase group?

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Is it common to give Primes to a chase group?

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Old 09-13-17, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Just saw this - I wonder.. he might just be pushing too hard because he's too damn strong for his own good.
no, he was working me. I've ridden in breaks where he was cooperating w/me too. clear as night and day!
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Old 09-14-17, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
Not sure you got it? The gatekeeping tactic means pull off the front but then basically ride next to the next guy (the target) so he can't pull off. He then has to work even harder at the end of his pull to get ahead of you so he can pull off. Or he can softpedal to try to get behind you and everybody yells.
If I understand this you have to be behind the guy in the rotation, then do your pull - stay out front during his pull and then some? It seems like this would only work if you are a much stronger rider than him? What's to stop him from pulling off to the right? Or just slowing down?

In my case this guy was in front of me in the rotation and just wouldn't push at all when it was his turn at the front or get out of the way. Almost like he was trying to hold up the chase group to let the break get away.
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Old 09-14-17, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JimShep View Post
If I understand this you have to be behind the guy in the rotation, then do your pull - stay out front during his pull and then some? It seems like this would only work if you are a much stronger rider than him? What's to stop him from pulling off to the right? Or just slowing down?

In my case this guy was in front of me in the rotation and just wouldn't push at all when it was his turn at the front or get out of the way. Almost like he was trying to hold up the chase group to let the break get away.
You've got it backwards. If you want to tire out the guy behind you in a rotating pace line, when you pull off the front of the line (when its clear to your left) rather than letting up to let the guy come through really easy, you just hold the pace a bit higher than you should. Force him to work for an extra 15 seconds to get past your wheel. Works extremly well when you've got a rolling paceline going up hill and you're the better climber.

What you experienced was someone blocking, albeit in an inexperienced manner. The best way to block (in my experience) is literally to just roll off. It doesn't make people angry but it still disrupts the flow just so. If you are in a crit and don't mind some angry people, hit the front, give 3-5 hard pedal strokes then settle in at an easy pace. People will think you are working hard when in reality they just closed this little gap and you're riding easy. In a rotating paceline, you don't rotate at all. Just sit at the back forever and let the others in front of you make their little circles.
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Old 09-17-17, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6 View Post
You've got it backwards. If you want to tire out the guy behind you in a rotating pace line, when you pull off the front of the line (when its clear to your left) rather than letting up to let the guy come through really easy, you just hold the pace a bit higher than you should. Force him to work for an extra 15 seconds to get past your wheel. Works extremly well when you've got a rolling paceline going up hill and you're the better climber.

What you experienced was someone blocking, albeit in an inexperienced manner. The best way to block (in my experience) is literally to just roll off. It doesn't make people angry but it still disrupts the flow just so. If you are in a crit and don't mind some angry people, hit the front, give 3-5 hard pedal strokes then settle in at an easy pace. People will think you are working hard when in reality they just closed this little gap and you're riding easy. In a rotating paceline, you don't rotate at all. Just sit at the back forever and let the others in front of you make their little circles.
I meant to say 'in front of' and thanks for clearing the rest up. Any strategies for dealing with someone who won't take his pull or blocking? I will be doing mostly crits and while I try to maximize my fitness chances are I will not be one of the stronger guys out there. I'm going to have to race smart to have any chance of doing well.
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Old 09-18-17, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JimShep View Post
I meant to say 'in front of' and thanks for clearing the rest up. Any strategies for dealing with someone who won't take his pull or blocking? I will be doing mostly crits and while I try to maximize my fitness chances are I will not be one of the stronger guys out there. I'm going to have to race smart to have any chance of doing well.
if someone won't pull or is blocking, the best is to keep them at the end of the group. Minimize the disruption by keeping him out of the rotation. After your turn, when sliding back, slot in ahead of him. Don't let him get up into 2nd wheel and go slow when the first wheel pulls off.

Also, yell at him. Every ****ing time. Nobody likes being yelled at and a lot of people will relent if they think they are making enemies.
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Old 09-18-17, 11:36 AM
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Yelling, or other verbal communication, can be surprisingly effective in many situations. A personal favorite of mine is not to yell so much as to just express withering disappointment. "At least pull through Dave." "I hope you're not going to contest the sprint after all of this." Etc.
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Old 09-18-17, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
Yelling, or other verbal communication, can be surprisingly effective in many situations. A personal favorite of mine is not to yell so much as to just express withering disappointment. "At least pull through Dave." "I hope you're not going to contest the sprint after all of this." Etc.
yeah - most people care more about being liked than winning races. This is both why @mattm s teammate owns me - he gives no ****s, and contributes to why I'm always 3rd/4th - I care too much.
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Old 09-23-17, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
yeah - most people care more about being liked than winning races. This is both why @mattm s teammate owns me - he gives no ****s, and contributes to why I'm always 3rd/4th - I care too much.
I have taken longer than I should of at the front but for me I felt like I had to prove that I 'belonged there' more than being liked.

It seems like any time the race splits into multiple groups if you don't do your share you reduce the chance of success for your group. IE - The break you are in is more likely to get caught or the chase group you are in won't catch the break. Either way you reduce your chances of winning.

At a weekly race series do guys try to team up with strong riders willing to do their share when they want to make a break/ bridge up to a break?

Obviously in a race with formal teams everything changes...
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