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Is it common to give Primes to a chase group?

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Is it common to give Primes to a chase group?

Old 08-21-17, 01:47 PM
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JimShep
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Is it common to give Primes to a chase group?

I am new to Crits, I have only done 6 so far and 5 have been part of the same training series. Several times they have given Primes for the group chasing the breakaway. Is this common practice?

I manged to get two this way (In separate races), the first by accident, the second on purpose. It feels a little weird to 'win' a Prime even though I was in third place.

Edit - In case I have my terminology wrong, In this race two riders went off the front. I was in a group of four riders trying to chase them down and the other 15-20 riders where scattered behind us. They gave a Prime for the group of four of us in 3rd-7th place.

Last edited by JimShep; 08-21-17 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 08-21-17, 01:51 PM
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Sometimes the primes are prizes offered up by a spectator. The is nothing stopping a spectator from offering a steak dinner to the first in that group next lap. An enthuisiastic announcer will be happy to jump on it.

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Old 08-21-17, 01:51 PM
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They can call a prime for whatever group they want. It's not uncommon for their to be field primes when there is a clear break. Heck, I once won a prime even though I was down a lap.
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Old 08-21-17, 02:36 PM
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Yes, a "pack prime" is common.

Actually, after reading your edit - I have not seen a prime for chasers before, but it makes sense if the gaps are big enough.
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Old 08-21-17, 03:29 PM
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I have seen them. Only ever cared when they did it once when I was solo otf. that ****ed me.
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Old 08-21-17, 03:48 PM
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Not "common" but it certainly happens. Generally whatever group the bell is rung for gets the prime. But I've seen it happen that the guy keeps ringing the bell even though the break will get the prime, and there are sometimes guys in the pack who don't even know there is a break. It's also common for a pack or chase group prime to not get properly contested because most guys don't know the prime is for them.
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Old 08-21-17, 06:25 PM
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Didn't think there are any rules for who to give prims to. Always figured it's up to promoters discretion to make things interesting.
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Old 08-21-17, 07:22 PM
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If the race seems stagnant (in terms of gaps between groups, etc - the riders certainly won't think it's "doing nothing") the promoter or announcer may offer primes to stir the pot a bit. This may be the case if the riders seem resigned to their places, or if one group is obviously stronger than the next.

Another thing is that if the group seem to be well established (break will win, chase won't catch them, field won't catch chase), a nice promoter/announcer may offer some prizes "in advance", effectively rewarding whoever for their work. It's sort of a show of appreciation, like "oh, the chase isn't going to catch the break and 3 riders aren't going to place in the money so let's give them another chance to win something".
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Old 08-21-17, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
are any rules for who to give prims to.
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Old 08-22-17, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
"I volunteer as tribute"


You're on a roll today.


To answer the OP, sounds like you guys won a 3 place field prime. You just happened to be the first of the field.
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Old 08-22-17, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by UmneyDurak View Post
Didn't think there are any rules for who to give prims to. Always figured it's up to promoters discretion to make things interesting.
USAC 3D7. Primes are sprints within a race. They may be for the lead riders or any group or field of riders. A bell shall be sounded on the lap preceding the prime sprint at the appropriate line for that prime sprint. The line used for prime sprints need not be the same as the start or finish line. Primes may be either predetermined for certain laps or spontaneously designated under the supervision of the Chief Referee. All primes won shall be awarded to riders even if they withdraw from the race. Lapped riders are not eligible for primes except in the following situation: when a breakaway has lapped the main field, riders in the main field and the breakaway riders are then both eligible for primes. When primes are announced for a given group, only riders in that group or behind it at the beginning of the prime lap are eligible.
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Old 08-22-17, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech Director View Post
USAC 3D7. Primes are sprints within a race. They may be for the lead riders or any group or field of riders. A bell shall be sounded on the lap preceding the prime sprint at the appropriate line for that prime sprint. The line used for prime sprints need not be the same as the start or finish line. Primes may be either predetermined for certain laps or spontaneously designated under the supervision of the Chief Referee. All primes won shall be awarded to riders even if they withdraw from the race. Lapped riders are not eligible for primes except in the following situation: when a breakaway has lapped the main field, riders in the main field and the breakaway riders are then both eligible for primes. When primes are announced for a given group, only riders in that group or behind it at the beginning of the prime lap are eligible.
I didn't know this. I saw a guy take a wheelset prime and sit up. They told him he had to finish to get the prize so then he was chasing. I didn't stick around to find out what happened though.
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Old 08-22-17, 05:41 PM
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I've seen it several times (and while not a racer I watch a lot). I don't think it is common, feels like 5% of the time.

I've also seen Primes significantly larger than the winning prize, also 5% of the time. That really messes up a race for those paying attention.

And I've seen Cat 1 juniors downgrade to Cat 3 to take big money.

But I already posted I'm not a fan of purses in amateur cycling.
Sponsored riders tend to execute to plan, not prime, so there is opportunity to grab some cash for the others, but if it goes against plan, there is a price to pay.
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Old 08-24-17, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
They can call a prime for whatever group they want. It's not uncommon for their to be field primes when there is a clear break. Heck, I once won a prime even though I was down a lap.
At this race I pushed hard to the finish to stay ahead of a rider attempting to pass me -- Even though he was a lap down. Good practice for pushing hard when tired though.

Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
I didn't know this. I saw a guy take a wheelset prime and sit up. They told him he had to finish to get the prize so then he was chasing. I didn't stick around to find out what happened though.
Wheelset?! I won a muffin, it was delicious though

Thanks for the answers, I wasn't sure if it was just some weird thing my local crit did.
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Old 08-24-17, 01:47 PM
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This wouldn't happen to be Wells Ave. Would it?
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Old 08-24-17, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dz_nuzz View Post
This wouldn't happen to be Wells Ave. Would it?
It would...
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Old 08-25-17, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
I didn't know this. I saw a guy take a wheelset prime and sit up. They told him he had to finish to get the prize so then he was chasing. I didn't stick around to find out what happened though.
Once of the classic Bobke stories is that he was camping at races (aka he was sleeping in his car), no money. He was starving, he hadn't eaten in x days (2?), he started a race, they rang the bell for a $50 prime immediately, he sprinted for and won the prime, stopped, got the money, went to a bakery right there, and ate a lot of bread.

For newer racers the advice used to be to go for primes before going for actual race places. It's like a low key finish because most people don't try too hard and the few that do end up being your only competition. You can practice finishes by going for a prime. If you get shelled after then no big deal, the idea is to try and get the prime. With zero or few primes allowed in Cat 5s that advice sort of went out the window.
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Old 08-25-17, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by JimShep View Post
It would...
Wells Ave muffins are the stuff of legend. Sometimes you also get jam, hot sauce, mangoes, coconuts and once I even got a pineapple (That was painful to get home).

But yeah, Wells Ave will typically put out field primes. But this is not something I see normally in most other races, granted I don't do many crits.
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Old 09-01-17, 10:17 AM
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As an announcer....

Common. We do it all the time. Quite frankly because in a lot of races when you have a break of 2 riders who are up a minute or so it becomes extremely boring to prime the break. They don't care and aren't going to do anything different. It's like throwing the sponsors money in the street and watching the riders just sort of ride over it like nothing was there.

In those instances we alway prime the pack so that people will actually "work" to get the prize. If someone take advantage of it and gets a small gap to the pack I'll prime them again "If you stay out there it's yours" in an effort to motivate them to bridge.

We also frequently prime the first lap as well. I only do it to fields full of friends who love to hate me.

I have announced newer races that went completely overboard on primes. You get so sick of calling them out. "4 place prime. Merchandise". Last race I announced had something like 3 or 4 primes for each gender, each age division for Juniors. I looked at them like they were crazy. "Have you ever watched a juniors race? There are 3 girls here total but they are across both age categories. The race(s) split up completely in 1 lap and you have no idea where the front of anything is. You have 16 primes.....it's a 25 minute race. Give something to everyone who finishes instead."
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Old 09-01-17, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
We also frequently prime the first lap as well. I only do it to fields full of friends who love to hate me.
I hate this. And just about every time it happens, there's a pileup in turn 2.

I've also been in a race where they started calling primes at lap 4, then called one for every other lap of the entire race. It was the last race of the day, and I guess they had not given everything out yet, so they had to clear out the prime inventory.
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Old 09-01-17, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
I hate this. And just about every time it happens, there's a pileup in turn 2.

I've also been in a race where they started calling primes at lap 4, then called one for every other lap of the entire race. It was the last race of the day, and I guess they had not given everything out yet, so they had to clear out the prime inventory.
You guys must get stellar primes. No pileups here on the first lap ones. Just immediate separation. Usually do it on Masters 3/4/5 level races. makes the race safe from the start as the interlopers cant hang on the first lap.
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Old 09-01-17, 04:59 PM
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There should be posting premes
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Old 09-01-17, 04:59 PM
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There is a race here where there's a preme every lap.
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Old 09-01-17, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
There is a race here where there's a preme every lap.
we have that race too. $10/lap cash. It's fun.
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Old 09-01-17, 07:56 PM
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Actually this made me think of something. Say prims are for omnium points. There is a small break with one racer in a running, and all the omnium competition is in the pack. If announcer starts doing prims for the field, and not the beak could this be considered cheating and organizer accused of playing favorites.
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