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Getting to Cat 1 with 8 hours/week?

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Getting to Cat 1 with 8 hours/week?

Old 09-28-17, 11:36 PM
  #26  
furiousferret
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I did an hour on the trainer, but I watched 2 episodes of Silicon Valley and vegged out (rest day intervals). Not sure if I could do it 24/7 and include actual intervals.

This guy spins.
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Old 09-29-17, 04:26 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
You're putting tone I don't intend. You and Metcalf are impressive for your willingness to train like you do. I admire it, I just can't do it.
you offered two options

dead-pan
joyless grump

shrug.

It's neither, just a lack of willingness to continually debate with folks about indoor training. To wit: the original post had me chained to the trainer, which carries fairly negative connotations. So we're back in the yay you like to train outdoors, and I like (yes, I prefer to train indoors) zone. We're not far from the you have better hills, better weather, etc. I'm not going to try and do what I do on open largely flat suburban roads. Particularly since I train when folks are heading to work and bringing their kids to school. I can, get some pretty wild training sessions up at Whiteface, but I only get to ride that (due to weather and timing) about 10 times a year.

Bottom line, is I don't really find the negativity useful. So if I get on the trainer tomorrow and feel like, "hey, maybe I should feel chained because guys like fudgy think the open road and risking the car is way better" well those intervals aren't going to as well, and when that owie part gets a little too owie it becomes a little easier to quit.

So if there's admiration in there in any way cool, but it sure gets lost in your presentation.

Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
heck, I remember you pulling out the rollers and riding in the deck by your car when you came down here to visit.
While that's true, in fairness I wasn't visiting, but down for work. My only opportunity to train was when it dark out (it was before daylight savings time), and I didn't know the roads at all.

Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
I'd MUCH rather quit racing than chain myself to a trainer. Trainer doesnt even count as riding in my book. I race cuz I like riding, so if I didn't get to ride I wouldn't race.

ok

Last edited by gsteinb; 09-29-17 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 09-29-17, 05:21 AM
  #28  
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As my professional life is going to change dramatically within the next year or so, I'm really thinking of ways to maximize the training specificity by riding indoors exclusively during the week, maybe outside on weekends if time permits. I think with the right setup I could do that and not feel like it was more work than fun.

I like intervals, I like specific training, so it shouldn't be too bad.
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Old 09-29-17, 06:40 AM
  #29  
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I'm like GStein. I'm on the trainer M-F. And in the winter, if it's cold or nasty out, I'm on the trainer (or rollers) on the weekends. I've done as many as four hours on the trainer. After awhile, it isn't so bad. As long as I have a structured workout to do, I can focus on that and get my workout done. I also have a TV set up in front of the trainer. People give me crap about the the amount of TV I watch, but 90 percent of it is watched while on the trainer.
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Old 09-29-17, 06:44 AM
  #30  
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Yeah, I think I'll get some E-motion rollers eventually. The 'stationary' part of a stationary trainer really messes with me, I can't handle not moving at all.
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Old 09-29-17, 06:57 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rankin116 View Post
Yeah, I think I'll get some E-motion rollers eventually. The 'stationary' part of a stationary trainer really messes with me, I can't handle not moving at all.
Let me know if you want to come by to try mine out before buying some.
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Old 09-29-17, 07:17 AM
  #32  
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Thanks, might take you up on that. I probably won't be buying any for a while though.
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Old 09-29-17, 08:44 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
TI do a lot, lot, lot of sweet spot and threshold throughout the winter (where my hours may only be 5-6 a week for periods) and when I'm not doing that I'll do stuff way above threshold. There's always intensity. I never do a z1 ride and don't do any z2 rides unless it's summer time with a dewpoint of like 75 and my normal z3-z4 is reduced to a z2 by virtue of not dying.

You never do a recovery ride? And by no Z2 rides do you mean no rides that are solely Z2? I mean, a three hour ride that includes 2x20 a threshold workout will end up being an NP Z2 ride -- do you mean you don't do rides like that?
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Old 09-29-17, 10:28 AM
  #34  
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Be a crit guy. Have a huge sprint. Fight for position at the end.
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Old 09-29-17, 10:56 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
People give me crap about the the amount of TV I watch, but 90 percent of it is watched while on the trainer.
Could be worse - I watch a lot of tv/movies, and it's all from the couch.
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Old 09-29-17, 11:00 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
Be a crit guy. Have a huge sprint. Fight for position at the end.
I don't think this is a great approach for a cat 1/2 on minimal hours, because:

a) a lot of guys you're competing against aren't on minimal hours, and that's their plan too
b) you'll need to get in breaks eventually
c) it partially comes down to who is the most rested at the end, which often correlates to base fitness/threshold
c) it's actually not easy to do. if it was, there would be a lot more cat 1's in the world
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Old 09-29-17, 12:43 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
I'd MUCH rather quit racing than chain myself to a trainer. Trainer doesnt even count as riding in my book. I race cuz I like riding, so if I didn't get to ride I wouldn't race.
Ha, I'm the opposite. I wouldn't ride if I couldn't race.
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Old 09-29-17, 12:46 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
You never do a recovery ride? And by no Z2 rides do you mean no rides that are solely Z2? I mean, a three hour ride that includes 2x20 a threshold workout will end up being an NP Z2 ride -- do you mean you don't do rides like that?
No. No recovery. I dont ride for recovery. I wouldn't consider a ride with a workout a z2 ride. Not sure anyone would.
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Old 09-29-17, 01:01 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
I'm like GStein. I'm on the trainer M-F. And in the winter, if it's cold or nasty out, I'm on the trainer (or rollers) on the weekends. I've done as many as four hours on the trainer. After awhile, it isn't so bad. As long as I have a structured workout to do, I can focus on that and get my .
I'm trying to convince the wife to let me go the smart trainer route this winter. Hop on, 30 mins threshold, hop off. Sounds very effecient.
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Old 09-29-17, 08:50 PM
  #40  
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I rarely turn a pedal outside between mid-October and March. It's so much easier to hop on the trainer, do a workout, shower and be back doing whatever than it is to spend the extra 45 minutes of before/after fiddling for a winter ride.

My M-F workouts are done during business hours. Except extended Z3+ or VO2 max stuff, I can still read/respond to email while on the trainer. So I might as well take advantage of working from home.

I'd be happy if I could average 8 hours a week. Work/Toddler make getting above 6 hours difficult. But having a coach and following his plan to a T still has my FTP rising steadily. I'm hoping to get closer to 8-9 hours/week starting mid November.
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Old 09-29-17, 10:20 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Ha, I'm the opposite. I wouldn't ride if I couldn't race.
Same with me. Going out for a training ride is nothing but a chore during this time of the year. I'm only doing it because I need to in order to maximize my fun racing.
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Old 09-30-17, 07:33 AM
  #42  
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At the end of the day no one really cares if you become a cat one or not. Just you and maybe a few of your friends. You are probably going to have to sacrifice fun for results. You'll have to make that decision. I've gotten slower as the years progressed because I stopped doing structured workouts on the trainer. Instead I've just been doing group rides.
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Old 09-30-17, 07:47 AM
  #43  
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As if doing something for you isn't a worthy goal, or can't be fun. Generally speaking the people who get there have fun doing it, and get there because they enjoy it. It's always entertaining when folks with little experience in something explain what it takes to progress beyond where they are. Sigh.
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Old 09-30-17, 12:11 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
As if doing something for you isn't a worthy goal, or can't be fun. Generally speaking the people who get there have fun doing it, and get there because they enjoy it. It's always entertaining when folks with little experience in something explain what it takes to progress beyond where they are. Sigh.
I don't really care what you think. I care zero. I don't care if you sit on your trainer or if you ride outside. In my opinion there are probably 1 million things in life that are more important than being a fast bike rider. But that's just my opinion. The original poster has things in his life that are more important than bike riding. How many really fast bike riders do no structured training? I guess I can't have an opinion about that.

You crack me up you are so sensitive. How many times are you going to defend yourself a riding on your trainer when absolutely no one cares.
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Old 09-30-17, 12:15 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
I don't really care what you think. I care zero. I don't care if you sit on your trainer or if you ride outside. In my opinion there are probably 1 million things in life that are more important than being a fast bike rider. But that's just my opinion. The original poster has things in his life that are more important than bike riding. How many really fast bike riders do no structured training? I guess I can't have an opinion about that.

You crack me up you are so sensitive. How many times are you going to defend yourself a riding on your trainer when absolutely no one cares.
hmmm. I'm in no way doing that here. I'm pointing that the dichotomy you emphasize -- having fun and getting to cat 1-- is in most cases a construct. The guys that get to cat 1 ARE generally having fun doing it. Structure or not.
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Old 09-30-17, 12:48 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
hmmm. I'm in no way doing that here. I'm pointing that the dichotomy you emphasize -- having fun and getting to cat 1-- is in most cases a construct. The guys that get to cat 1 ARE generally having fun doing it. Structure or not.
True. I imagine most like the process or they would have quit. I suppose some are miserable along the way, and just push through.

But MANY do not progress because they want to focus on what is fun for them.

The OP likes to do group rides. I'm not aware of any cat 1 riders in my area who do only group rides and races. There is one group ride where some of these guys join in. Sat or Sun morning. It's a race more than a group ride.

Most every other group ride - rare to have a cat 1, or for that matter a cat 2. Maybe it's different in California, where you have different kinds of terrain (mountains) or just different kind of riding culture.

One thing I have surmised - really fast guys do very specific workouts, most often solo.

LOTS of cat 3s and cat 4s do group rides all the time. I know. Those are the guys I ride with.

My theory is that just about anyone can become a cat 3 if they put the effort in. Genetics be damned. I could have easily catted up to 3 in my very first racing season as a fat old man (I have 21 points in USA cycling from about 10 cat 4 races--nobody cares of course, not even me). What I do wonder is to do what degree there are limiters to someone becoming a cat 2. I don't think I will ever be a cat 2. I think it *might* be possible if I dedicated MUCH more time and effort and expense. But possibly not, at my age. I don't think I could ever be a cat 1, no matter how hard I tried. So I wonder if Cat 2 is the level where natural talent/genetics comes into play, where not everyone can make it, no matter if they have unlimited resources/time.
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Old 09-30-17, 01:07 PM
  #47  
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Here is an approach if the goal is really getting to Cat 1 in < 8 hour/week. Do as well as focused training.

Read the upgrade policies and transfer policies for USAC real well. So will a cx Cat 1 get you a road Cat 1?
Then find the race type and length that best suits you and one you *think* you have/can get the skills for.
Come up with a plan of how you will get your points. By wins, a lot of top 5s, stage races? Big fields or small fields.
I was suggesting you leave long races out, just not enough hours in legs for those.

Then look where (venue and race) you can best get those points. Cat 2s are not the same everywhere in the nation, or in every age bracket.
Find the largest/weakest Cat 2 fields that fit your strategy.

Race there.
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Old 09-30-17, 01:11 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Here is an approach if the goal is really getting to Cat 1 in < 8 hour/week. Do as well as focused training.

Read the upgrade policies and transfer policies for USAC real well. So will a cx Cat 1 get you a road Cat 1?
Then find the race type and length that best suits you and one you *think* you have/can get the skills for.
Come up with a plan of how you will get your points. By wins, a lot of top 5s, stage races? Big fields or small fields.
I was suggesting you leave long races out, just not enough hours in legs for those.

Then look where (venue and race) you can best get those points. Cat 2s are not the same everywhere in the nation, or in every age bracket.
Find the largest/weakest Cat 2 fields that fit your strategy.

Race there.
Where are the slowest places in the nation?
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Old 09-30-17, 01:13 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
Where are the slowest places in the nation?
Closer to the equator, because gravity is stronger there
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Old 09-30-17, 01:17 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
Where are the slowest places in the nation?
Not getting me into that one. That is the OPs homework.

But for crits - not SoCal.
That said, there are a number of SoCal crits (Ontario series) that always end about the same. Place 1-2 finish about 44-45mph. Places 5-10 are pretty available and in the 30s. The guys gunning for 1st often back off seeing JW is grabbing another one - and there are easier pickings off-podium.

Couple other things:
Avoid P12 races and go for Cat 2 only.

Look for competing races in the same area. One has a big purse, the other not. If looking for points, don't chase the money.
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