furiousferret

@spectastic I have SRAM Force, and it has internal routing for it so I would guess it works fine for Shimano.

Also, I run 38's. Seems fine for me.

spectastic

are the bars flared? eg 36 c-c in the hoods and 38 c-c in the drops? I measured my fsa 40 cm bars, and they're actually 38 c-c in the hoods and 39 c-c in the drops.

furiousferret

Sorry I was busy looking at cat gifs.

They're not flared. Same width at the hoods and drops.

spectastic

i love cat gifs. thanks dude

topflightpro

If you go with something that flares at the drops, go 38. I kind of wish I had.

With regard to Ex's comments, I've been running 33s on my track bike. I know a lot of folks are successful with it, but I just can't get comfortable that narrow. I'm going with 37 Scattos. At the fronts, the 37s are only 1cm wider than the 35s. They don't really get wider until at the drops.

Racer Ex 

Both. Team sprint and pursuits on the track. For whatever reason a lot of my crit races turn into TT's.

McBTC

Have you already used clip on aerobars?

spectastic

i have them but i don't planning on doing any TT's anytime soon. ftp is not exactly a strong suit, especially not in p/1/2. heeellllllll no






so i ordered the bontrager race lite aero handlebars (aluminum version) through a LBS. excited to see them.

spdntrxi

I was running 39cm Canyon H11s... but the new bike those bars with the integrated stem might be short now, since the head tube got longer(old man bike). Trying out some Zipps SLSS (not aero) in 42 with a 130mm stem and eyeing the SL-70 in 38 or 40.

spectastic

20180105_085432.jpg
6 hours later...
20180107_224506.jpg
20180107_224543.jpg
I'm pretty happy with these, although the reach measurements were off by 15 mm, and I had to cut my stem by 2 cm to match my previous fit.

carpediemracing 

I'm glad you posted those pictures. One reason I like the compact bars is that the tops are far enough forward that I don't bruise my forearms on the tops/bend-area when I sprint. The aero Bontrager bar's tops are far enough back that this would be a problem.

I cut about 2-3 cm off the ends of the drops, making it pretty clear where I put my hands. Looking at the bottom picture, if I cut off the straight section of the "before" bars off, I end up under the stem. With the Bontragers I'm well forward of the tops, basically where the black electrical tape site.

rubiksoval

Those look pretty good! What are the reach and drop numbers, if you have them handy?

spectastic

my fsa wing compact had proper measurements of 80 reach 125 mm drop. I didn't measure the drop, but the 80 reach was measured center to center. when I did the same center to center measurement on the bontrager, I got between 95 and 100 mm. I measured it a whole bunch of times, and I'm hinging on 97 mm reach (with the bar tape already on), give or take. their website published 85 reach, which I think is the shorter edge to edge measurement.. kind of useless. The width is slightly off too. my 38 mm bars are more like 39. never measured the drop, but it appears maybe 1 cm lower than my fsa compacts with 125 drops. However, that's near the end of the dropbar. Where the hand sits, there's little difference.

McBTC

Looks great but not sure how much is reduced if as you mentioned the, handlebar accounts for 30% of the drag of the bike... The aerodynamic effect of using aerobars seems to me to be pretty dramatic in a headwind situation but otherwise, are they just a huge wind drag such that you'd be better off without them?

rubiksoval

The position it allows you to maintain is far more significant.

Remember, the majority of drag is from the rider. Aerobars help mitigate that in a very significant way.

McBTC

Back in the day, they had no clue about aerobars... nor, helmets.

I think you see more use of aerobars among triathletes because no drafting is allowed ("the bicycle portion of a triathlon is an individual time trial. The key point being individual. It is the objective of the triathlete to overcome one enormous force, aerodynamic drag, on their own, without any 'boost' from other competitors.")

spectastic

yea, setting up the arms like that with the torso parallel to the ground drastically reduces the rider's cross section, and aerodynamics. of all the upgrades, aerobars are probably the biggest.

i was actually about to ask.. any time trialist enthusiast know how close the caad9 with clip on aero bars and aero road helmet would fare against an actual time trial bike with a real time trial helmet?

TMonk

The frame makes little to no difference compared to the position (obv), helmet, skinsuit and wheels. I race my venge with carbon wheels, skinsuit, "aero" road helmet (evade) and carbon clinchers in stage race TTs and get my ass kicked. Granted, I'm not the biggest FTP type guy, and I don't come in last, matter of fact I manage to beat a couple of guys on TT bikes.

Don't have a TT bike so I couldn't tell ya, but I'd image that the position and aerodynamics that a real TT frame affords are worth quite a bit of speed.

McBTC

Just reading that Pantani putting out 350W was the equal of Indurain mashing out 500 if you compensate for body weight and compare on a W/kg basis. So, depending on riders' weights, TdF-competitors are powering up at ~0.47 to 0.67 hp. Makes me think overcoming wind resistance is a lot like carrying your weight uphill and that that even with less hp you may fly even faster on the flats if you can cheat the wind using a more aerodynamic riding position.

TMonk

Well being smaller also means you have a lower profile. Granted, it's not as much of an advantage as it is going uphill, and bigger dudes generally have an advantage at TT. Even big dudes like Indurian or @Ygduf can get pretty damn slippery, hardly less so than little dudes, and their big power outputs afford them faster speeds. Still, there are examples of little guys (think Leipheimer) that were fast as hell in the TT so it really just depends. But again bigger usually means faster.

Personally I'm mid-size (155 lbs) and not a huge engine over long 20+ minute efforts, but I'm a skilled rider and think I could get to a pretty fast TT time with some optimization. I've got a left-leaning 'pursuiter' profile and can put out a disproportionately high (for my FTP) 2-5 and even 10 minute power. I think I'd kill it at the pursuit (track) and look forward to really delving into that some day.

jsk

It's not so much about aero tubes as it is the geometry. A road bike that fits you well for normal riding (even aggressive) probably isn't going to be optimal for a good TT position. The aerobar pads will probably be higher than optimal, the saddle may not be in the right place, bar reach may not be the right amount, etc. Handling also may not be great on the clip-ons.

Some of that you can adjust if you're willing to change your bike setup between races (eg, change saddle height and saddle set back, add/remove stem spaces). But getting a good TT fit and purchasing a frame that will allow you to ride that position will almost always be better.

As far as helmets go, the better aero road helmets are not too terrible far off from a dedicated TT helmet. Spesh, Bontrager, and Scott all make aero road helmets that test pretty well, Giro also has a new one out now.

aaronmcd

When I do stage races I run my road bike, aero frame. I swap the stem, add clip ons, and move the seat forward and up. I can get any position I want on my road bike. Its not the bike that holds me back, its the shape I can't morph myself into physically.

On the small rider thing, I have a teammate who is decently fast in breaks/TTs who is 110 lbs and puts out just over 200 watts. He is a real pain to try and draft lol!

rubiksoval

I don't understand what you're talking about.

Every serious time trialist has a time trial bike with aero bars. Your initial post seemed to question whether or not aero bars were worth having since they would conceivably add more drag to the bike.

But the overwhelming, irrefutable answer is yes, they are 100% worth it. Not sure what triathletes have to do with it, though.

McBTC

The Socratic method of inquiry can be fragile at times....

Ygduf

nah, I've stayed out of this, but your posts have made no sense. They pose no questions, just offer old pictures and affected vagueness.

Do you race? Have you ridden a TT?


@TMonk - I'm actually not slippery. I'm average at sea-level TTs. It's no coincidence that the one result I have that's good, at nationals, came at the sweet spot elevation where you gain more speed from thin air than you lose from reduced-oxygen FTP.