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Old 04-16-18, 10:39 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
At Downer Ave I watched so many lay their bikes down (safely and behind the wreck) after the fact that it took the pits 5 or 6 laps to get everyone back into the race.

Thing is it was early in the race. If you're held up by the wreck you can take the lap. It's always up to the official's discretion.
I've seen pros dropout of races and then jump back in on prime laps. Rinse, repeat. Not that it's common, but it isn't unheard of.
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Old 04-16-18, 10:46 AM   #252
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yeah dropping a chain is absolutely not grounds for a free lap.
I understand the rule is the rule, but also can see spec's point in this specific case. Hitting a bump that cause a chain-drop is no more his fault than hitting a bump that causes a pinch-flat, so why does one get special treatment and not the other? Personally I think free laps are bogus and should be done away with; too much room for abuse. Sure it sucks to have your race end because of a flat or crash, on the other hand why should you get the advantage of a free rest and being able to join back in the race? There's no similar compensation in other types of racing, so why should crits be any different?
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Old 04-16-18, 10:56 AM   #253
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I understand the rule is the rule, but also can see spec's point in this specific case. Hitting a bump that cause a chain-drop is no more his fault than hitting a bump that causes a pinch-flat, so why does one get special treatment and not the other? Personally I think free laps are bogus and should be done away with; too much room for abuse. Sure it sucks to have your race end because of a flat or crash, on the other hand why should you get the advantage of a free rest and being able to join back in the race? There's no similar compensation in other types of racing, so why should crits be any different?
Because you have to draw a line somewhere.

How do you determine whether the chain dropped because you hit a pot hole or because you failed to properly maintain/set up your bike?

Flats are a bit or more cut and dry, and I can say that I have had officials check my tires to makes sure they weren't too worn out when I came into the wheel pit.
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Old 04-16-18, 11:13 AM   #254
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Because you have to draw a line somewhere.

How do you determine whether the chain dropped because you hit a pot hole or because you failed to properly maintain/set up your bike?

Flats are a bit or more cut and dry, and I can say that I have had officials check my tires to makes sure they weren't too worn out when I came into the wheel pit.
^ - This. For about 2 years we had officials asking us to pump up flats to make sure they wouldn't hold air as well. There apparently had been a rash of fake OTB "flats".

When it comes to the chain dropping - purely mechanical. The limit isn't the only thing on the front derail that prevents the chain from dropping. Proper position is even more important and most mechanics actually leave them too high.

I'm not going to say chains should NEVER drop ...but.... there are ways to address it most of the time.
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Old 04-16-18, 12:18 PM   #255
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Old 04-16-18, 01:33 PM   #256
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At Downer Ave I watched so many lay their bikes down (safely and behind the wreck) after the fact that it took the pits 5 or 6 laps to get everyone back into the race.

Thing is it was early in the race. If you're held up by the wreck you can take the lap. It's always up to the official's discretion.
my mechanical happened on lap 2. it would've been no problem for them to let me back in. i was in good form for that race, and it was pretty obvious i wasn't trying to get back in the field after getting dropped. the officials likely knew this. i've gotten good results earlier in the year. we're there in the spirit of competition and for putting on a show, and I was there to provide both, yet their "discretion" was to give me the shaft. does that seem reasonable to you?

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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
^ - This. For about 2 years we had officials asking us to pump up flats to make sure they wouldn't hold air as well. There apparently had been a rash of fake OTB "flats".

When it comes to the chain dropping - purely mechanical. The limit isn't the only thing on the front derail that prevents the chain from dropping. Proper position is even more important and most mechanics actually leave them too high.

I'm not going to say chains should NEVER drop ...but.... there are ways to address it most of the time.
like i mentioned, the mechanic looked over my bike. the tension was where i needed to be, and the limit screws were where they needed to be. the bike was properly setup.

-------------

fwiw, i saw at least two other times in the race where people were let back in through the pit. i don't pretend to know what their predicament was, but none of them had mismatched wheels from the pit that would indicate a flat tire.

so far, the message i'm getting is that next time something like this happens, i should just throw dirt on myself and lie to the officials.

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Old 04-16-18, 02:16 PM   #257
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my mechanical happened on lap 2. it would've been no problem for them to let me back in. i was in good form for that race, and it was pretty obvious i wasn't trying to get back in the field after getting dropped. the officials likely knew this. i've gotten good results earlier in the year. we're there in the spirit of competition and for putting on a show, and I was there to provide both, yet their "discretion" was to give me the shaft. does that seem reasonable to you?



like i mentioned, the mechanic looked over my bike. the tension was where i needed to be, and the limit screws were where they needed to be. the bike was properly setup.

-------------

fwiw, i saw at least two other times in the race where people were let back in through the pit. i don't pretend to know what their predicament was, but none of them had mismatched wheels from the pit that would indicate a flat tire.

so far, the message i'm getting is that next time something like this happens, i should just throw dirt on myself and lie to the officials.

Or, alternatively, go home and say it wasn’t your day.
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Old 04-16-18, 02:35 PM   #258
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Weird race for me Saturday. I felt good, got in the first right move about 1/3rd of the way in, but when it was caught and the second right move went a few miles later (with all the same principle players) I like, didn't even try to be there for it. I had the legs, I'm not sure what happened mentally. I knew what was going on, and saw the right guys moving up at the right part of the circuit for a thing to fly, I just didn't move up with them. Some sort of confidence issue? Maybe I need to get reacquainted with suffering? Not enough coffee? Who knows. I've been dissecting it over and over again and I can't really place my finger on it beyond making a note to not do whatever it was that I did again. I kinda wish it was a fitness thing, at least that you can be like "need more intervals" and plan to get better over the next block. This is just weirdly existential.

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Old 04-16-18, 03:39 PM   #259
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Personally I think free laps are bogus and should be done away with; too much room for abuse. Sure it sucks to have your race end because of a flat or crash, on the other hand why should you get the advantage of a free rest and being able to join back in the race? There's no similar compensation in other types of racing, so why should crits be any different?
Have you taken a free lap?

It's not free rest.

It can straight f* up your race. Especially really hard races. At elite crit nats I went from siting about 10th wheel to getting a flat, taking a free lap, and being pushed in towards the back of the field. Took me 4-5 laps to get back up to the front only to see there was a split.

Besides, you're going from a very hard effort, to nothing, to a max sprint to get back in the field.

It's anything but a rest.
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Old 04-16-18, 03:42 PM   #260
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Weird race for me Saturday. I felt good, got in the first right move about 1/3rd of the way in, but when it was caught and the second right move went a few miles later (with all the same principle players) I like, didn't even try to be there for it. I had the legs, I'm not sure what happened mentally. I knew what was going on, and saw the right guys moving up at the right part of the circuit for a thing to fly, I just didn't move up with them. Some sort of confidence issue? Maybe I need to get reacquainted with suffering? Not enough coffee? Who knows. I've been dissecting it over and over again and I can't really place my finger on it beyond making a note to not do whatever it was that I did again. I kinda wish it was a fitness thing, at least that you can be like "need more intervals" and plan to get better over the next block. This is just weirdly existential.
small field. what happened to the once glorious series?

surprised you didn't do brumble.
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Old 04-16-18, 03:43 PM   #261
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Because you have to draw a line somewhere.

How do you determine whether the chain dropped because you hit a pot hole or because you failed to properly maintain/set up your bike?

Flats are a bit or more cut and dry, and I can say that I have had officials check my tires to makes sure they weren't too worn out when I came into the wheel pit.
Twice I've taken free laps when someone hit my wheel/ I hit someone's derailleur/whatever... and bent my spokes so the wheel was rubbing.

Both times the official spun the wheel to make sure it was out of true.

That wasn't a flat, but they didn't just take my word for it, either. Glad to see they're checking for abuse. I guess that's easier to check than whether or not a chain would drop.

Still, it irks the hell out of me to see free laps for absolutely nothing and then no free laps for something legitimate. What if someone gets bumped and goes off course a significant amount to avoid crashing, to the point where they're off the back a good amount? I'm not sure about that one, either.

But anyways, I don't have a solution, so not worth complaining about I guess.
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Old 04-16-18, 03:50 PM   #262
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small field. what happened to the once glorious series?

surprised you didn't do brumble.
Oh, I was at Brinkerhoff actually both weekends! We had a pretty large field this Saturday, which was nice to see.
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Old 04-16-18, 04:00 PM   #263
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brumble was awesome besides nearly ending my career, great course
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Old 04-16-18, 04:04 PM   #264
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Yeah dude I saw your post! I never know how to respond, "that blows" never seems good enough. I'm sure you'll be back to it quickly, though you may never win another game of thumb war
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Old 04-16-18, 04:11 PM   #265
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they mailed me my check for brumble and it showed today. those new england folks are a-ok.

first time ever I really pondered packing it in. too much metal in my body. post surgical pain was really ridiculous. but yeah, back to it soon. hopefully I can get a decent workout tomorrow and turn the page. Really want to line up for bear with eyes on winning. it's the NJ state RR now too.
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Old 04-16-18, 05:10 PM   #266
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this is really pissing me off. I hit a bump on this rather sketchy course that resulted in my chain dropping off of the inner ring, and me having to get off the bike to get it back on. I was not shifting in the front. it was the force of the bump, combined with me trying to pedal that resulted the chain getting derailed, not really user error any more than it would've been if I had gotten a pinch flat from hitting a pot hole. when I roll to the pit, the official immediately denied me a free lap, assuming that the mishap was due to rider error, or poorly adjusted bike. I went to the mechanic later, and according to him, my inner limit screw was right where it should be. If we were climbing, and I was shifting to my small ring, and my chain drops, I wouldn't have complained. But this situation doesn't seem right. I ended up entering back in the race, and finished 5th, but they had me at 1 lap down, so my result didn't count. One of the officials, as well as other racers approached me saying that next time, I should say that I went down. I think I should've been allowed back in the race. what do you think?

https://youtu.be/bsUTKXeH48Q
This weekend was my first time on that course, and I can certainly vouch that it was bump filled with a side of sketchy in some places.
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Old 04-16-18, 07:05 PM   #267
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Not exactly a race, but as close as I've come this year, and I did pin on a number...
I did the Belgian Waffle Ride in San Diego yesterday. 133 miles, 11k vert, about 40 miles of it on dirt/sand/trail. Like last year, I opted to use my road bike with 28's rather than the gravel bike. I think it was the right choice except I didn't learn from last year's speedplay debacle and once again found myself struggling to clip in/out due to dirt in the cleats, mountain bike shoes are the way to go! I felt great all day until about mile 126 when I hit the double peak climb but I rallied to finish in a respectable time and 11th female overall. Moving time was 8:34, finish time was 8:54, so I spent almost 20 minutes dinking around at aid stations and falling over in sand. Hoping for a top 10 finish one of these years. I was 30 minutes faster than last year on a tougher course so definitely some improvement. Super fun day on the bike and always great to challenge myself with some mixed terrain riding.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1511248614
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Old 04-16-18, 09:52 PM   #268
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One of our best local Cat 3s had a dropped chain on Saturday. Or was it Sunday? At the Matrix. FWIW, he didn't even bring up the idea that he should have gotten a free lap.
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Old 04-17-18, 02:56 PM   #269
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One of our best local Cat 3s had a dropped chain on Saturday. Or was it Sunday? At the Matrix. FWIW, he didn't even bring up the idea that he should have gotten a free lap.
Well as a three he is in the Ultimate Cat.
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Old 04-17-18, 03:06 PM   #270
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and probably a domestic pro in California.
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Old 04-17-18, 03:08 PM   #271
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^... Hahahha
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Old 04-17-18, 05:37 PM   #272
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Damn, I had a big report written up but lost it.

Anyway - two crits this weekend. Kingsburg & Visalia ("Michelob Ultra Sequoia Classic") down in the CA central valley.

Kingsburg is a new crit, in a weird "Swedish" town that has accordion music playing over speakers downtown. Figure-8 course with mostly smooth/open roads, except for one block that's broken up chipseal, almost gravel.

A group of 8 of us got away early, me & another teammate in it. Somehow we lapped with like 30 minutes to go, and kept attacking etc. With 10 to go four got away, without me or teammate in the move.. damn. Of the other two teammates we had there to help us, one was tired from the previous 35+ race, one was fighting a burrito he'd had earlier in the day. Ended up 5th, damn.

Then on Sunday was the "Sequoia Classic" crit in Visalia, $4k up for grabs in the p/1/2 race since it was an ARC race.

J Williams, Bahati, T. Locke from Socal showed up. Field was decent, almost 50. Still, with all the money on the line you'd think it would have been more. Anyway it was fast, it was hard. My team was in all the moves, including The Move that eventually got away and almost lapped the field.

I always hear about how "Socal guys are aggressive," and it seems to be true. It was fine though, just bike racing.

The peloton was told to sprint early so that the break of 11 could sprint for the win.

Justin Williams won, my teammate got 5th, I got 17th (payout was top 20). That plus some big primes meant we raked in over $700 for the race. Not bad! On to the next one.
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Old 04-17-18, 09:38 PM   #273
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Damn, I had a big report written up but lost it.

Anyway - two crits this weekend. Kingsburg & Visalia ("Michelob Ultra Sequoia Classic") down in the CA central valley.

Kingsburg is a new crit, in a weird "Swedish" town that has accordion music playing over speakers downtown. Figure-8 course with mostly smooth/open roads, except for one block that's broken up chipseal, almost gravel.

A group of 8 of us got away early, me & another teammate in it. Somehow we lapped with like 30 minutes to go, and kept attacking etc. With 10 to go four got away, without me or teammate in the move.. damn. Of the other two teammates we had there to help us, one was tired from the previous 35+ race, one was fighting a burrito he'd had earlier in the day. Ended up 5th, damn.

Then on Sunday was the "Sequoia Classic" crit in Visalia, $4k up for grabs in the p/1/2 race since it was an ARC race.

J Williams, Bahati, T. Locke from Socal showed up. Field was decent, almost 50. Still, with all the money on the line you'd think it would have been more. Anyway it was fast, it was hard. My team was in all the moves, including The Move that eventually got away and almost lapped the field.

I always hear about how "Socal guys are aggressive," and it seems to be true. It was fine though, just bike racing.

The peloton was told to sprint early so that the break of 11 could sprint for the win.

Justin Williams won, my teammate got 5th, I got 17th (payout was top 20). That plus some big primes meant we raked in over $700 for the race. Not bad! On to the next one.
Solid work Matt! People don't like driving over the Grapevine to the Central Valley. SoCal racers in general don't really commute to races like the NorCal guys do. I blame the LA traffic.

Almost went to Sequoia, but with the way I've been racing its better I just stick to the training races til it comes back.
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Old 04-18-18, 01:52 PM   #274
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The entire crit season has been pretty disappointing to me so far. I had more success as a Cat 5 last year than I did this year. Only 1 podium in more crits than I did all of last year (which was 14). I did a 33- emergency consultation with CDR, and he gave me some very useful pointers based on my race videos.

Anyway, very windy day yesterday. 22mph from the South. I wasn't sure I wanted to race in those conditions. But I did.

The C race has a few dangerous young guys. With about 3 or 4 laps to go, one of those guys does a solo attack. And no one is chasing. Then his teammate bridges up to him alone, and it's two of them. That's trouble. Then with 3(?) laps to go, the entire front splinters as some start to chase in the crosswind. I wasn't on the front, but I knew it was time to go or die. I yelled to my teammate, our best sprinter, to get on my wheel and I would bridge him up. I buried myself into the 22mph headwind and bridged up to 4th on the road. But no one had been able to stay on wheel. Then I rested and hoped this guy could help me get to the leaders. 3rd place fell back to us. I did take a pull on the last lap, but when we hit the headwind, I flicked the elbow and the big strong guy came around. He wasn't hammering, but he was on the front snaking around the road. I sprinted out of the final turn or so and finished an easy 3rd, two seconds back from the leaders. Maybe I should have tried to bridge up to the first 2, I don't know, I second guess myself about this.


In the B race, I started off super tired. I was working hard just to be the caboose. At a couple of points, I got gapped off the back with small groups, and had to be one to bridge us back against that 22mph headwind. One the 2nd time, I was escorting our best Cat 3 in this race up to the main group. Others of my teammates were attempting breakaways the entire race, unsuccessfully. I was dying. I was just hoping for a successful breakaway with a teammate and the group would just exhale. Nearing the start of the final lap, I yelled back to my teammate if he wanted me to burn a match to move him up. He said no. But once we hit the headwind on the first turn, I told him to get on my wheel and I would take the inside line to move him up. Which I did. The group had slowed down, no one wanted to be in the wind. I had two teammates already on the front, and now I was on the front. I wasn't sure what to do with a half lap to go, I had done what I wanted in helping my teammate, so I decided best thing was to keep the pace high into the finish. We don't have a formal sprinter, but the guy I had helped moved up usually does fairly well in a sprint. As I gradually increased speed, I kept trying to look back to see who was on my wheel. I couldn't tell. But it didn't seem to be a teammate. Once we hit the final turn, suprisingly I was still on the front. So I started to put in whatever power I had left (I had been in the wind basically an entire mile). I thought, I'm on the front, there's a chance that I get on the podium just by virtue of being ahead. Neared the finish line, and then suddenly another team's sprinter clips me on the line. 2nd in the B. My first time to finish better than 6th in a B crit. I'm still a little shocked that I got that result, given my legs and fatigue in the race, and how I was in the wind for so long. If you watch my video when I post it later, you will never for a second believe that I will end up on the podium as the race plays out.

So after all the mishaps and poor performances, feels good to get my first B crit podium, and a double podium at that. Even more weird, in both races I decided to completely sacrifice my results for my teammates and in both cases I ended up on the podium. Thanks CDR for all the time you take to coach up nitwits like me!


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Old 04-18-18, 09:20 PM   #275
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Raced again tonight on the more technical short course. Wasn't sure how legs would react. Everything worked out perfect for me in the C race. I moved with 2 laps to go near the front, was 2nd wheel. One the very strong TT guys decided to make a move with 1.5 laps go to (this is a 0.5 mile lap), I immediately caught his wheel. And he took me around through the chicane. I decided to pass him right before the 3rd to last turn that goes into the long backstretch (where people like to pass). And hope no one would catch my wheel before turning into a headwind on the 2nd to last turn. As luck would have it, a dropped rider was in the apex of that turn, I had to brake through the turn. I finished well ahead of my teammate (who took the crit series win), and he finished a good deal ahead of the pack.

8th in the B (didn't really worry about my finish, given there was a break of 4 up the road for most of the race, containing one of my teammates).
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