arai_speed

@mattm - congrats!
@TheGuyaskingforafreelap - during a crit last season I was involved in a crash, guys in front went flying I went flying over them. As I was unhurt, I picked up my bike, adjusted the chain and started pedaling. I let the group catch me and I re-joined at the back and finished the race at the tail end of it. I never went back to the pits and asked for a free lap and I guess all was well in the world of racing that day.

topflightpro

If you go down in a race like that, you really should go see the race official. They keep track of all riders involved in crashes for insurance purposes. It's really important for the officials and promoters to know who was involved as well as injuries.

Had you developed an injury later, and then applied to supplemental insurance coverage through your USAC license, you would have been denied because the official would not have had record of you being involved in the crash.

Also, had the officials been tracking things better, you would have finished down a lap, and they would not have been required to correct your finish.

Ygduf

for shipping I'd send you my fork stand that I used when I was doing tt bike stuff on the rollers.

arai_speed

Going back to the pits never crossed my mind really. A few guys behind me, who were not involved in the crashed but merely slowed for it, just did what I did.

Radish_legs

Last year, there was a crit that started when I was still in the bathroom. I tried to catch on, but failed, and continued to ride a lap down. A break won. I did contest the sprint from the pack, and finished something like 9th (can't remember)--though of course in the official results I was second to last due to being a lap down. I was roundly criticized for having contested the sprint in this 3/4 weeknight crit.

So I'm curious about spec's Cat 2 state crit championship (I just watched his vid). He's a lap down because of a mechanical, they don't pull him, and he contests the entire race, trying to start breakaways (maybe he can lap the field and get back on the same lap). He contests the sprint, and finishes 5th in the sprint. Why didn't they pull him? And is what he did okay? He points out in his video that other people seem not to know that he is a lap down. He's impacting and animating the race.

If it is okay, why is what I did not okay?

According to my reading of the rules last year, what spec did was perfectly okay. He was not pulled, he is allowed to continue to race in a crit. If the officials don't want him to impact the race, they can pull him. They did not.

mattm

Honestly you're lucky they even let you start at all. Missing the start is not a valid reason for a free lap.

I haven't seen spec's vid, but if he had a (valid) mechanical and took a free lap, the officials basically sign off on your issue and you get back in to the race - not a lap down, i.e. you could still legitimately win.

The main sticking point though is that free laps are only available for things that aren't your fault; generally flats or crashes are the only valid reasons for taking a free lap. Dropping a chain or have a loose seat post - things that are avoidable and your fault - are (usually) not valid reasons for a free lap. But, it's up the to ref's discretion.

Maybe I'm missing something though?

Radish_legs

I was not given a free lap. I started maybe 15 seconds after the start. I was merely lapped and kept racing, never interacted with the officials. I never asked for a free lap, just figured I would be a lap down. And this is a race where no one gets pulled.

Spec went to the pit, asked for a free lap, was denied and was told to keep racing.

mattm

Oh I see.

So yeah what spec did may have been in bad taste, but not against the rules per se.

If people are lapped (and not pulled) they can technically “go for the sprint,” even if it’s impossible for them to win at that point.

It’s basically the same thing as when the break laps the field. Guys that are a lap down can still race - in my experience it’s annoying to lap bc some guys don’t even know they’ve been lapped, some know but act like they haven’t, and just get in the way.

topflightpro

Lapped riders in many races can also contest a prime.

tobukog

Lapped riders are always problematic, and I prefer not to lap the field to keep the confusion to a minimum. There's always a push and pull between letting lapped riders do their race -- it is a race after all -- and having them unduly affect the outcome of the leaders. I once lost San Rafael after lapping the field and having lapped riders ride against me in the sprint. But that's racing -- my opponent had more favors to call in than I did.

Wylde06

I attempted something that resembles racing today.

Blew up in approximately 2 minutes. BOOM

Stupidly tried going with a few guys that attacked from the start. When you havent really been training, that **** hurts a lot..and you get dropped fast. 0 crit fitness right now. Going to skip the next week or 2 of racing and focus on training. Big weekend of racing in May that I really want to do well in..so I really need to crack down and focus

mattm

Sucks - was that you that got crashed out after lapping the field that year?

mattm

Things like that are at least motivating af!

mattm

Speaking of lapping, did a little crit today in which a teammate went from the gun with one other and lapped.

I played the good teammate role and patiently waited for him to lap, which he did. Led him out ftw!!

I don’t even know what place I got, but all that mattered is he/we got 1st!

tobukog

No, I still came in second by a bike throw. It really messed up the the last two corners, and that downhill turn 4 is always critical at San Rafael. Maybe they've moved the finish line, or maybe that just don't go as fast on turn 4, but way back when it was almost impossible to come around a good sprinter if they led it through 4.

Radish_legs

I was hoping for this scenario last week. was going to unleash something in support of my teammate, but alas, they did not quite lap us (perhaps on purpose).

Ttoc6

At the pro/1/2 Tour of Walla Walla critthis weekend, yellow jersey + a teammate and two others were up the road in a decent break. Yellow jersey on the back slid out with about 8 laps to go (still could have done free laps). He got up and jumped back in with the pack, never even going to the pits. The break ended up getting swallowed up and the yellow jersey changed hands because of time bonus.

Now he was able to get it back the next day, but a critical mistake cost his team the jersey for a day and a guaranteed podium. The break just barely got caught last lap. One more body (specifically one like Kaler Marshall) putting in the work and it would have stuck.

Ttoc6

Cat 3 Tour of Walla Walla Report: Cat 3: 9th / 51 GC

Stage 1 TT: 7 mile Uphill out, downhill back. Held good power on the way out, but was getting blown around a bit in the winds coming back, so didn't hold how I wanted to on the return. 10th on the day.

Stage 2; 46 Mi RR: Was in the early move but people were being stupid in the winds (Cat 3 People from the NW have NOOO idea how to race in the winds). So i sat up when it looked like we were getting caught to take the extra 10 seconds to recover. Of course 3 juniors in that break keep pushing and the break ends up sticking. I jump over the top of the climb to try and put some pressure on but it doesn't work. Nothing happens until the last lap and final climb. I'm riding in the paceline until the attacks start to go and i get a small cramp. No idea why I'm cramping a short RR, but oh well. lost a few seconds and one from the breakaway survived until the end and he took over yellow. I moved down to 11th on GC.

Stage 3: 60 min crit. Fun times. Really enjoy the course, techy with the wind making stuff fast. Took a few fliers but nothing worth writing home about. Was in great position coming into 2 to go when I pinch flatted. Damn it.

stage 4: 63 mi RR. More wind and boring racing until we hit a clib I had no idea was on he course. Holding wheels until the top when the little guys really took off. Chased hard on the descent but got swallowed by the chase that made the catch when we hit the feedzone. Slow riding until a tailwind climb where splits happen and I'm in the chase again. Take up the pace setting up the climb and we get close to making the catch but it doesn't happen. Launched early for the sprint(like 800 or so) but it didn't work. So we rolled in 1.5 min down on the lead group and I moved up to 9th on GC.

Not how I wanted the weekend to go, but it was a super fun race and it was awesome to have family there supporting me. I really enjoy stage racing, but that time of the year is cmoing close to an end. On to bigger, better (and longer) things.

furiousferret

Top 10 is still a good result @Ttoc6!

ntnyln

Carl Dolan CR this weekend. A 2.1 mile loop with headwind coming out of the start finish to a short downhill and 90 degree turn to a very fast slight downhill to about a 1 min 3-4% power climb where it flattens out at about 275m into a headwind finish.

First up was the 45+ with 52 in the field. This is the third year I've done the race and I've learned that nothing gets away and no one really tried, so we rode in circles for about 44 min until the last mile. You need to be at the front at the 90 degree turn or your done. Speeds coming out of that turn into the small climb are 40+ so you aren't making up ground at that point. I came out of the turn in the top ten, hit the climb where I needed to be and then I got slammed from the side by a guy with nats stripes on his jersey as he full on launched his sprint head down from the the middle of the front group at 500m. He threw me to the side and I pulled my foot out of the pedal while I kept my balance, but ended up rolling in at the back of the pack. DNFL though

2 hours later it was the 3/4 race with 89 of my closest friends. More riding in circles for 60 minutes except this time with more bumping and grinding. It was like being in a pinball machine, so I just stayed near the front and stayed out of trouble. The pace was quick enough that it kept things fairly orderly at the front, but I heard after the fact there were several crashes at that back. Same as last race, I moved up before the downhill and came out of the turn about 6 wheel. We kept it strung out into the climb. At about 300m someone takes off on the left. I'm on the right and go as the rest of the front group reacts to avoid getting swamped. It's along drag race among the front group. This length is the hole in my power profile, so I faded a little at the end and ended up 6/89. Not quite what I wanted but I'll take it for my second race weekend of the season. As an added bonus, it looks like the race was long enough to count as a road race so that means a few points. Slowly chipping away: 9/30

Takeaway from the two races is that I was able to get where I wanted to be at the end of the race. I struggled last year with putting my nose up there when it counted. Very happy with this development.

ntnyln

Great racing @Ttoc6 and @mattm

spectastic

it's in the beginning of the video. hit a bump that caused the chain to derail. bike was properly setup. officials didn't care. i'm over it, but I still think it's unfair.

topflightpro

It looks like you hit the same bump everyone else hit.

And as already discussed, dropped chains never qualify for free laps.

TheKillerPenguin

The best free lap I ever got was because I was running brand new tires and power sliding around every single corner being generally hazardous to the pack. I removed myself from the race and ran to the pit, quickly explained what was up, and they gave me a new rear wheel while shaking their heads and let me back in.

Conversely, I flatted 60 miles in to an 80 mile race on Sunday, and the support car was up the road with the breakaway so my day was done. Over a long enough timespan it all balances out.

gsteinb

some how I missed this post. thanks for the offer. appreciated.