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Better way to pin on numbers?

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Old 03-13-18, 11:52 PM
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spectastic
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Better way to pin on numbers?

I think the numbers they give us are too big. It's really hard to pin the numbers on left/right and back, without them overlapping, or impeding access to the bib pockets, which need to remain flexible for easy access. right now, the way I do it is to pin my left/right number first, and then pin the middle number almost on the other side of the kit. I've seen most people pin them on the pocket, but they don't look very flat, like it could mess up their slipstream a little, and it looks like it would be a lot harder to access the pockets.

I'm thinking about taking a pair of scissors with me to races, and cutting off the excess real estate around the numbers/sponsors/etc, so that I can easily fit my numbers on my back. Will I get in trouble for that?

Also, anyone tried using racedots, and the like? they seem like a nice concept, but no way in hell I'm paying $50 and change for some stupid frig magnets. I also question whether they'll be secure enough.
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Old 03-14-18, 12:12 AM
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tetonrider
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
I think the numbers they give us are too big. It's really hard to pin the numbers on left/right and back, without them overlapping, or impeding access to the bib pockets, which need to remain flexible for easy access. right now, the way I do it is to pin my left/right number first, and then pin the middle number almost on the other side of the kit. I've seen most people pin them on the pocket, but they don't look very flat, like it could mess up their slipstream a little, and it looks like it would be a lot harder to access the pockets.

I'm thinking about taking a pair of scissors with me to races, and cutting off the excess real estate around the numbers/sponsors/etc, so that I can easily fit my numbers on my back. Will I get in trouble for that?

Also, anyone tried using racedots, and the like? they seem like a nice concept, but no way in hell I'm paying $50 and change for some stupid frig magnets. I also question whether they'll be secure enough.
Do not cut the numbers. That makes it a pain for those scoring and is often called out (esp in stage races). We all deal with the same numbers.

Race dots suck.

Use super77 adhesive spray instead of pins.

Done.
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Old 03-14-18, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
Do not cut the numbers. That makes it a pain for those scoring and is often called out (esp in stage races). We all deal with the same numbers.

Race dots suck.

Use super77 adhesive spray instead of pins.

Done.
how is it a pain?

and I've heard the adhesive has a hard time coming off. Do you need a special detergent or something?
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Old 03-14-18, 12:17 AM
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In norcal we only get one number on the side the officials are on. Every 10 or 20 races or so someone gets called out on folding or cutting a number smaller. Its not allowed, and I wouldn't do it for fear of being embarrassed but I haven't seen anyone booted over it.

On a side note, last red kite crit I was at an official randomly walked straight up to me and told me my number placement was perfect. I was a little shocked... Like aren't we all cat 1 and 2 here? Don't we all know how to pin a number? Its not that hard to imagine how a number would best be seen from the side and pin it there... But then I glanced to my side and the dude next to me had his number pinned on the side of his butt. WTF. LOL.
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Old 03-14-18, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
how is it a pain?

and I've heard the adhesive has a hard time coming off. Do you need a special detergent or something?
We’ve had officials in here before that describe major difficulty in using the finish line camera to read numbers, and their job is made harder and more time consuming if white space around the numbers is removed by a rider.

Basically every tech guide addresses this. Usually it is a cat 4 or 5 rider who thinks they are riding in the TdF that does this. We have all been there and had this idea.

Don’t.

Re the 2nd comment...lots has been written. You should not be worried. Just peel the number off immediately after the race. Use goo gone gel if there is a little residue on your kit. NBD.
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Old 03-14-18, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
We’ve had officials in here before that describe major difficulty in using the finish line camera to read numbers, and their job is made harder and more time consuming if white space around the numbers is removed by a rider.

Basically every tech guide addresses this. Usually it is a cat 4 or 5 rider who thinks they are riding in the TdF that does this. We have all been there and had this idea.

Don’t.

Re the 2nd comment...lots has been written. You should not be worried. Just peel the number off immediately after the race. Use goo gone gel if there is a little residue on your kit. NBD.
I still don't understand. How does white space around the number help officials see the numbers in the finish camera? Even so, only the side number is used for officials, right? the lower back number is used for the moto. the camera won't be looking at that one, and it's the one that happens to be the biggest pain in the ass, in my opinion.
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Old 03-14-18, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
I still don't understand. How does white space around the number help officials see the numbers in the finish camera? Even so, only the side number is used for officials, right? the lower back number is used for the moto. the camera won't be looking at that one, and it's the one that happens to be the biggest pain in the ass, in my opinion.
you asked, they answered.

go ahead and trim it, I say. let us know how it goes.
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Old 03-14-18, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
I think the numbers they give us are too big. It's really hard to pin the numbers on left/right and back, without them overlapping, or impeding access to the bib pockets, which need to remain flexible for easy access. right now, the way I do it is to pin my left/right number first, and then pin the middle number almost on the other side of the kit. I've seen most people pin them on the pocket, but they don't look very flat, like it could mess up their slipstream a little, and it looks like it would be a lot harder to access the pockets.

I'm thinking about taking a pair of scissors with me to races, and cutting off the excess real estate around the numbers/sponsors/etc, so that I can easily fit my numbers on my back. Will I get in trouble for that?
.
I completely agree.

In TN, they'll fine you if you fold or cut the numbers. Or at least threaten to fine you...not sure if it's actually ever been carried out.
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Old 03-14-18, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
Don't we all know how to pin a number? Its not that hard to imagine how a number would best be seen from the side and pin it there... But then I glanced to my side and the dude next to me had his number pinned on the side of his butt. WTF. LOL.

I've been told/heard others told numerous times to start at the front side panel hem, which is absolutely absurd because the number is then wrapping around your rib cage and catches all the wind, no matter how many pins you use. I always start at the back side panel and have never had any issues with being seen and most of the time never had any comments about it across multiple states. Same goes with the back number; lower the better for keeping it out of the wind.

People have different ideas on what's necessary for functionality.

Having two numbers (required in all TN weekend races) is really an unnecessary pain.
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Old 03-14-18, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
how is it a pain?

and I've heard the adhesive has a hard time coming off. Do you need a special detergent or something?
Goo Gone Spray Gel.

It will also take the coating, and sometimes tread off the of your tires.
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Old 03-14-18, 06:48 AM
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I have seen many local officials yell at racers for folding or trimming numbers. I've not seen anyone DQ'd yet.

Scoring a race is a nightmare. If you've never done it, I suggest you try. I am amazed at how good a job most officials do. If I were doing it, only top three would get placed. Everyone else would just be the pack.

Most local race officials are using old, beat up equipment. The video quality is not good, and depending on lighting and camera placement, numbers can be very hard to read. There are fewer and fewer people willing to serve as officials. Do everything you can to make their jobs easier and thank them after the race.
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Old 03-14-18, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
...

I'm thinking about taking a pair of scissors with me to races, and cutting off the excess real estate around the numbers/sponsors/etc, so that I can easily fit my numbers on my back. Will I get in trouble for that?
...
When my kid was 70# the numbers almost wrapped around him. It is nutty.

Anyway, the trick as others mentioned is to glue. First find a nice sharp corner - like a railing and "burnish" / soften the number by pulling across. Crinkling into a ball and rolling around works too, but that creates facets that they say are difficult for the high speed camera - when they have one. Then 3M 77 spray the back. Wait abut 5 min and have it rubbed on. Do this before warming up. You may want to pin the corner, but not needed.

Here are the rules:
1J7. Racing numbers.
(a) Racing numbers are provided by the Race Director, who
may require a deposit that shall be refunded on return of the
numbers in good order. The figures shall be printed in block
letters using black waterproof ink. Numbers shall be
45
constructed from materials sufficiently durable to last the
race without tearing or disintegrating, even in adverse
weather. The name of the race or race sponsor may appear
on a competitor's number. Race Directors who fail to provide
numbers meeting the above requirements to all riders shall
be fined as specified in the Schedule of Fees.
(b) Riders shall place their numbers as prescribed by the
Race Director or officials and in such a way that they are
visible when the rider is in a racing position. When shoulder
numbers are provided for cyclo-cross, they are worn on the
upper arm to be visible from the front. Hip numbers shall be
attached securely at least at the four corners and no
accessory or hair may obstruct a clear view of the number. If
shoulder or frame numbers are provided, they too shall be
placed as prescribed. Numbers may not be folded, trimmed,
or otherwise defaced.

(c) A Local Association may impose additional number
requirements. ....
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Old 03-14-18, 07:05 AM
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does gluing cause faster deterioration of the jersey? I read somewhere that's the case.

yea I saw the rules too. but I it's not like before every race, they go through a 200 page document to make sure that everyone is in compliance. I've shown up late to races, and we've only had one number pinned on. my teammate once had one number held by one corner, and it was flapping around in the wind. he won the race, and never got flack for it. but he's also very noticeable. If the side number needs to be seen, i'll leave it alone and make life easier for the officials. other than that, I'm going to make life easier for me.

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Old 03-14-18, 08:40 AM
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Different officials, different regions care more about certain things. The prior SoCal pres had a fit over gluing numbers for kids and would call them out on the line and lecture them. More kids glued their numbers next time. In that case it was not a rule, just his thing. I have seen one cut number and the rider was fined and had to get a new one. I've seen a few folded and let go. The level of the race, and officials has a lot to do with it. I think your chances of getting away with a cut or fold is pretty low at higher levels.

For a single season - no. The Goo Gone Gel may. After that goes on, the jersey gets wet right away.
Where it is an issue is in stage/omnium number re-use. A GooGone'd number is not going to be glueable the next time.

Our system I think is typical. Have 1-2 race jersey/kits and keep the other stuff away. If you glue correctly and time it right there will be little residue, if any. You gently stretch the fabric under the number. But it is somewhat an art. Too much 77 glue, not dried and it gets in the jersey. Too little, or too dry and it does not stick. Forget and warm up first, or kit is wet and sticking is going to be difficult.
Different number materials are also different.
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Old 03-14-18, 10:39 AM
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I vote for the "htfu and use pins" route.

Like Teton said, we all have the same numbers struggle.
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Old 03-14-18, 12:10 PM
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ok **** it then
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Old 03-14-18, 12:47 PM
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My experience with the 3M 77 spray, if you don't spray it on too heavy, you should have no problem removing it without residue on the jersey and without ruining the number for re-use. Don't spray it so heavy that it's dripping off the number; the number should be tacky but not wet. I still use 4 pins at the corners just to be safe (and just in case some picky ref thinks glue alone is not enough).
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Old 03-14-18, 01:15 PM
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Old 03-14-18, 01:40 PM
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FWIW in ref class this came up. The burnish technique was shown. The very senior SoCal refs now have no issue with glue. Crinkles are bad, burnish is good, and fits better than a straight number.

Some number printing is terrible - and I think done with toner/printer. On these, the numbers will start coming off without much effort.
That was the case at Ladera CR (SoCal) in 2015. The refs were mentioning to riders, but this is really a promoters fault (see rule). Everything worked out, but it is sometimes useful to know where to point the finger - 1J7(a)
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Old 03-14-18, 02:00 PM
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I'm an old school pinner. 8 pins: four corners plus four sides. The glue doesn't seem very reliable. I've seen more than a few glued on numbers half peeled off in the middle of the race. I'm a pretty sweaty guy so I suspect I'd dissolve the adhesive right off.
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Old 03-14-18, 02:15 PM
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I just wish we had permanent numbers we could sew on to a kit and be done with it. Even with the large amount of racers in some associations its doable if you get creative.
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Old 03-14-18, 03:32 PM
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I thought this was helpful.
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Old 03-14-18, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
I just wish we had permanent numbers we could sew on to a kit and be done with it. Even with the large amount of racers in some associations its doable if you get creative.
WA had (has?) cloth numbers, but you wouldn't want to sew them on. I used to leave them pinned and wash them sometimes, that was nice.

It was really nice to be able to pin up before the race!

And they were pretty small, didn't catch much wind. They had four-digit numbers, so it seems like that should cover even big ole CA's racing population.
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Old 03-14-18, 04:02 PM
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Our weekly crit series has cloth numbers. They're pretty good. I don't usually wash them because then I forget and the pins inevitably rust, but the numbers hold up perfectly well.

When I raced in Denmark we used these rubber-type numbers for the summer. They were a bit thick, though, and not too nice. But a lot smaller, too.
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Old 03-14-18, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
I'm an old school pinner. 8 pins: four corners plus four sides. The glue doesn't seem very reliable. I've seen more than a few glued on numbers half peeled off in the middle of the race. I'm a pretty sweaty guy so I suspect I'd dissolve the adhesive right off.
nah - the glue works fine if you know what you're doing and sweat doesn't touch it. Laundry detergent doesn't touch it. Adhesive remover does work.
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