Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

how do you train in race season if you have no "A event"?

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

how do you train in race season if you have no "A event"?

Reply

Old 03-22-18, 11:34 AM
  #1  
Radish_legs
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 358 Post(s)
how do you train in race season if you have no "A event"?

Last 2 weeks, I have done double crits (C and B) on both Tues & Wed, that's 4 races on 2 days per week. And then I do a hammerfest group ride the next day. I do a tough group ride on Saturday. And some commuting and slow stuff on Monday.

So if I do it like this, I'm going to have zilch in terms of trainer and interval work.

Last year I started to lose fitness when I started racing. I'd like to avoid that this year.

I don't really have any goals. I guess you could say my goal is that I want to be able to sit in a pack in a 40+ masters race. Which is basically Cat 3 level or higher. Arguably I'm close to that right now.

For those of you that do regular weeknight crits, how do you keep on top of training?
Radish_legs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-18, 12:01 PM
  #2  
furiousferret
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 5,550
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 527 Post(s)
IMO, you should cut out the group rides and do actual intervals and high volume (150 tss) days. Hammerfests are for keeping your pack skills sharp or learning pack skills, but the crits serve that same purpose. Additionally, once you hit a certain fitness level (and that level is pretty low assuming your pack skills are solid) they're not the best training.
furiousferret is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-18, 12:20 PM
  #3  
TheKillerPenguin
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,465

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 652 Post(s)
How are you measuring fitness loss? Is it on the PMC? If so that's sort of expected, and doesn't reallllllllly mean you're getting less fit even though your CTL is decreasing a bit. If it's based on PE and the numbers your power meter puts out, it either means you were resting too much, or not enough. 4 races over 2 days followed by a hard group ride is a lot of stress. I assume you're taking Friday reasonably chill before hammering on Saturday? If not, if this was your schedule last year you might just have become a bit tired, since that's not really an awful lot of downtime, and that sort of fatigue tends to flatten out your power curve. My experience is that it takes an awful lot of over resting to lose fitness, and the amount of intensity it sounds like you are getting wouldn't really result in detraining.

When are your races going to be generally? Are you just looking to be good for these weeknight races, or will you be racing on the weekend?
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-18, 12:34 PM
  #4  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,975
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
One option is to assign one of the local weeknight crits as your A race.
topflightpro is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-18, 01:16 PM
  #5  
Ygduf
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,852

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 909 Post(s)
energy spent overthinking it is energy that could be spent doing 3-4-5 min intervals or using race rides to learn how to separate wheat from chaff.
Ygduf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-18, 05:08 PM
  #6  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 2,247

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1301 Post(s)
You train before/after the race.

In my opinion, crits waste away fitness if that's all you do for hard rides. No reason you can't do 30-60 mins of threshold or intervals before. I've always done two a days as my crits are always in the afternoon and evening, so I'll typically do something either the day before or the morning of unless it's a big race I want to be rested for.

Also, your training should be different from your racing, meaning you should probably be focusing on tempo/threshold if you're doing crits and staying in the bunch doing lots of supra-max efforts and then recovering. Conversely, if you're soloing off the front of every race, you might do some short/hard intervals in training.
rubiksoval is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-18, 07:13 PM
  #7  
Ttoc6
Cat 3
 
Ttoc6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: UT
Posts: 1,175

Bikes: CAAD 10 / CAAD X / Scalpel

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 495 Post(s)
I've struggled with this. You have to balance the fun of group rides and C races and the necessity of training. If you're going to use those mid week rides as training, they need to be hard and with a focus on refining some part of your curve. Good recovery between is important as well. Race ride Tuesday/ midweek crit Thursday can be good for fitness if you can put the time in before / after the crit. But you really shouldn't be doing anything too hard between those two days. Especially if you've got another race on the weekend. When it comes time to peak, balance it out and rest appropriately.
Ttoc6 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-18, 06:41 AM
  #8  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 267

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
I'm watching this one. Posting so it shows up in my watched list.

I'm interested because I'm patently the opposite. With kids, I do not have time to swing out to a bunch of crits OR random group rides. So, a lot of my time ends up being structured trainer rides doing intervals of whatever the plans are saying to do.
burnthesheep is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-18, 12:12 PM
  #9  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,836
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
i'm going to bet that you didnt lose fitness, you got tired. not over trained, just accumulated fatigue.

I stopped doing the A/B/C race thingy a long time ago, I want to win or do well in every race. Thus, when race season would start, I'd race on weekends and ride pretty ez during the week with a higher intensity day mid week. I found that i was more adequately rested on weekends for races and maintained a high level of fitness from March to September (there are peaks and valleys, but there always are).
MDcatV is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-18, 12:17 PM
  #10  
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,225
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 995 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
energy spent overthinking it is energy that could be spent doing 3-4-5 min intervals or using race rides to learn how to separate wheat from chaff.
words of wisdom!
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-18, 12:39 PM
  #11  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,809
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 995 Post(s)
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
i'm going to bet that you didnt lose fitness, you got tired. not over trained, just accumulated fatigue.
That was my first guess as well
himespau is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-18, 12:52 PM
  #12  
Radish_legs
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 358 Post(s)
Update on this... I've returned to some trainer work (mostly because of weather). I did weights one day. The trainer work is mostly on the last 2 weekends. In a zwift race, I set new power PRs from 24 to 60min.

Not much to show for results in my crits this year prior to this week. 1 first place in the C, a couple of 4ths. A few top 10s in the B (including 6th two or three times).

Then this week, on Tues I got 3rd in the C bridging up towards the breakaway off the front of the group. And right after got 2nd in the B (my first time ever to podium in the B) when I attempted to bring my teammate to the front and pull on the front for him, like 3/4 lap effort. And then the next day I got 1st in the C on a different course.

I'm not sure I'll ever get results like that again, lol. I think my fitness is still building. And the crit efforts have been difficult and have made me stronger I think. Doing B/C on back to back days.
Radish_legs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-18, 01:21 PM
  #13  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,809
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 995 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
Update on this... I've returned to some trainer work (mostly because of weather). I did weights one day. The trainer work is mostly on the last 2 weekends. In a zwift race, I set new power PRs from 24 to 60min.

Not much to show for results in my crits this year prior to this week. 1 first place in the C, a couple of 4ths. A few top 10s in the B (including 6th two or three times).

Then this week, on Tues I got 3rd in the C bridging up towards the breakaway off the front of the group. And right after got 2nd in the B (my first time ever to podium in the B) when I attempted to bring my teammate to the front and pull on the front for him, like 3/4 lap effort. And then the next day I got 1st in the C on a different course.

I'm not sure I'll ever get results like that again, lol. I think my fitness is still building. And the crit efforts have been difficult and have made me stronger I think. Doing B/C on back to back days.
Are you getting more fit, or are you getting better at reading the race and learning when to make which moves?
himespau is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-18, 03:41 PM
  #14  
Radish_legs
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 731
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 358 Post(s)
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Are you getting more fit, or are you getting better at reading the race and learning when to make which moves?
In my case, I think both. My early poor results were partly due to bad luck, nerves, and bad race decisions. But I also think the racing and other training are building my power. I've not become weaker in the past month, I've become stronger. I think. I've also done a whole lot less sitting in during the racing, so that's led to higher strain during racing. Which I wasn't getting very much of last year.
Radish_legs is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service