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If you notice someone faked a crash in your video

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If you notice someone faked a crash in your video

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Old 05-27-18, 07:29 AM
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Radish_legs
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If you notice someone faked a crash in your video

In other words they rolled past the crash, braked, put a foot down, and laid down their bike, and put a hand down on the ground. And then got a free lap and ended up in the money, whike everyone else around him had to chase for much of the race...

What would you do? Do you keep this to yourself and hide the video evidence? Do you speak personally to the racer whom you do not know? Do you make some kind of formal complaint? By the way this is part of an omnium series of crits.
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Old 05-27-18, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
In other words they rolled past the crash, braked, put a foot down, and laid down their bike, and put a hand down on the ground. And then got a free lap and ended up in the money, whike everyone else around him had to chase for much of the race...

What would you do? Do you keep this to yourself and hide the video evidence? Do you speak personally to the racer whom you do not know? Do you make some kind of formal complaint? By the way this is part of an omnium series of crits.
15 minute protest period.
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Old 05-27-18, 09:37 AM
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After the protest period, you don't have much recourse. This isn't too uncommon in big races. In local races, though, just call them out. Put it on social media if you want to be more passive aggressive. Say something on the start line if it's part of a series. A little public shaming is probably as effective as you can get, if they care about such a thing.. And if not, well, eh.
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Old 05-27-18, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
After the protest period, you don't have much recourse. This isn't too uncommon in big races. In local races, though, just call them out. Put it on social media if you want to be more passive aggressive. Say something on the start line if it's part of a series. A little public shaming is probably as effective as you can get, if they care about such a thing.. And if not, well, eh.
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Old 05-27-18, 03:44 PM
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The video got passed around among riders I know. My understanding is that one of these riders who saw it talked to the officials today, and the officials called out the rider at today's start. Public shaming.
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Old 05-27-18, 06:18 PM
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That's about all you can do, after the 15 min protest period.

I've been asked for my helmet cam footage after a couple incidents. In both cases the incident wasn't visible on my video. One was a crash where a guy took out a slew of people at the front of the field in a sprint. A number of riders broke bones, my whole team collectively quit doing crits. No solid evidence. The same rider took me out two Tuesdays later in exactly the same way, after asking me if I was going to be carrying my helmet cam that race (I wasn't).

In the other incident an adult racer stomped on a Junior racer's bike, smashing the frame/drivetrain, after saying the Junior caused him to crash. No evidence on my clip (it was raining and my clip showed one racer on the ground the other limping along as the field flew past him) but the adult racer got punished in some manner for the off the bike property destruction. Wacky.
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Old 05-27-18, 10:04 PM
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I know there was at least one other video taken during the race. I've been in races with at least 4 people recording video. Hopefully this fact, will curb the behavior of some that is either dangerous or unsportsmanlike.
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Old 05-28-18, 01:52 PM
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Seems the rider in question has offered a pretty terrible attempt at an explanation here: TXBRA.org = The Texas Bicycle Racing Association
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Old 05-28-18, 10:24 PM
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For sure the rider crashed once, the lap before. His other claims I have not been able to verify. But what happens in the video is about 4 minutes into the race. And for the record, I did not post the video link to any social media.
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Old 05-29-18, 09:51 PM
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So someone calling himself nationsnumber1beast posted up on TXBRA forum with his opinion. The thing about that forum is that you can post any name you want. But if in fact it is the REAL nationsnumber1beast, does that mean he is on the 33 and saw the link here? I'd be starstruck if he actually watched one of my videos, LOL.
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Old 05-29-18, 09:57 PM
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I don't even get this, it's kinda like throwing a game or prize fight. Just quit. No shame admitting you can't do it.
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Old 05-29-18, 10:02 PM
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This event has really struck different chords with different folks. Some people say it's just part of racing, a little bit underhanded, but part of racing. Or even smart racing. On the other hand, some are actually quite pissed and consider it blatant unsportsmanlike cheating.

I'm a beginning racer, I was one of the guys who chased. Should I emulate this more experienced guy and fake a crash next time? Or do what I did, continue chasing, even though effectively my race for the podium (not that I ever had a chance) was over?

What are the stakes in amateur bike racing? Money? Pride? Camaraderie?
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Old 05-30-18, 11:01 AM
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I'm not wired to do what you say the racer in the video did (my instincts would have been to chase) but in all honesty, I would rank this as "a little bit underhanded, but part of racing."
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Old 05-30-18, 11:48 AM
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I would be embarrassed if the video was of me doing this. For me, it totally would not be worth it. It's not part of my character to fake a crash for a free lap.
I played pickup basketball for years and years. Some guys would cheat in that too. Like all the time. Lie about calls and such. I considered that a character flaw. Just play the game straight up.
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Old 05-30-18, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
I would be embarrassed if the video was of me doing this. For me, it totally would not be worth it. It's not part of my character to fake a crash for a free lap.
I played pickup basketball for years and years. Some guys would cheat in that too. Like all the time. Lie about calls and such. I considered that a character flaw. Just play the game straight up.
It does kind of remind me of that guy on the court calling "and one" after every shot even if no one is near. In pickup ball that I used to play, that took care of itself pretty quick when that guy couldn't get to be part of anyone's 5 unless they were really desperate.
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Old 05-30-18, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
This event has really struck different chords with different folks. Some people say it's just part of racing, a little bit underhanded, but part of racing. Or even smart racing. On the other hand, some are actually quite pissed and consider it blatant unsportsmanlike cheating.

I'm a beginning racer, I was one of the guys who chased. Should I emulate this more experienced guy and fake a crash next time? Or do what I did, continue chasing, even though effectively my race for the podium (not that I ever had a chance) was over?

What are the stakes in amateur bike racing? Money? Pride? Camaraderie?
As I mentioned before, this isn't too uncommon in big races. I for sure would never do it in a local race, and would never advocate doing it in one, and wouldn't necessarily advocate it in any race...

But I've been in a PRT race where a huge crash happened with six or seven laps to go (right before free laps ended) and I braked hard, then went around it and tried to chase after it split and I didn't make it on and got pulled, when several (a dozen plus) others that didn't go down just took a free lap and got back in. So if that happened again in a PRT instead of slamming on brakes and swerving I'd probably just ride ride into the middle of it and put a foot down and take a free lap. I didn't get dropped and pulled because I was out of shape or not fit enough or couldn't race well enough. I got pulled because I was behind a huge crash and tried to close an 8-10 second + gap at 32 mph and couldn't, which is the case for many.

So a bit duplicitous and I guess I shouldn't really say I'd do that and then condemn someone that does it in a small, local race, but I do anyway. And I've posted a video of very prominent guys in the southeast doing it, too, so I'm not sure many would outright disagree in those specific situations.
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Old 05-30-18, 06:04 PM
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I'm with you guys, would not do it. I got dropped 10 mins into a road race, was chasing with another guy when we passed a rider that flatted out. Flatted rider then came by drafting the follow car. The rider I was with also jumped on the draft and made it back to the pack. Seems like cheating to me 🤷*♂️
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Old 05-30-18, 06:13 PM
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I think it depends. I've taken a lap after nearly endoing avoiding a crash but not actually falling down. I figured it was close enough and I was genuinely impeded. I wasn't really in trouble insofar as hanging on to the field goes, I was sitting comfy, so I don't see it as an issue.

That said, I would not take a free lap if the same thing happened and I was red lined and in danger of being dropped beforehand. In that scenario the rest a free lap gives seems more like cheating.
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Old 06-06-18, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wktmeow View Post
I'm with you guys, would not do it. I got dropped 10 mins into a road race, was chasing with another guy when we passed a rider that flatted out. Flatted rider then came by drafting the follow car. The rider I was with also jumped on the draft and made it back to the pack. Seems like cheating to me 🤷*♂️
i've done that, a few times.

-once after a team mate who was in the podium spots at a stage race had a mechanical issue (skewer came loose), I stopped with him to fix and pace back. there were a few follow vehicles, and he was kind of panicky so I told him to get on my wheel, we're going to work through the cars (of which there were like 2), so if we get DQ'd it'll be me who was drafting and you are just following my wheel. it was follow, surge, follow, surge and we were back with the group.

-another time I pulled a team mate up to a split that he'd missed on a race that suited him but not me, after the effort, I got popped on a climb, the follow car came through and there was a very respected racer following the bumper. he waved me over, so I followed his lead. we made it back to the group but were not in the mix in the results.

-and another, at battenkill, which was a really big race circa 2010/2011, i got popped from the front group. the sram support vehicle was following and the guys were yelling at me to "get on the bumper" when they came by. I did, and got back to the pack. we repeated this a couple of times.

there's a lot of gray in bike racing
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Old 06-06-18, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post

there's a lot of gray in bike racing
not gray
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Old 06-06-18, 08:43 AM
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I didn't think being in the caravan was gray, I thought it was fine as long as you're making forward progress or getting assistance.

Do the rules say differently, outside of blatantly taking a tug or sitting on one car for extended stretches?
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Old 06-06-18, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I didn't think being in the caravan was gray, I thought it was fine as long as you're making forward progress or getting assistance.

Do the rules say differently, outside of blatantly taking a tug or sitting on one car for extended stretches?
I don'tt know what you’re reading but I see blatant sitting on one car for long periods of time. Living in a place where folks take rules and make them gray (no free lap; no using the joggers lane; don’t cross the yellow line) gray is generally code for ignoring rules.

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Old 06-06-18, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post


I don'tt know what you’re reading but I see blatant sitting on one car for long periods of time. Living in a place where folks take rules and make them gray (no free lap; no using the joggers lane; don’t cross the yellow line) gray is generally code for ignoring rules.
Reading, as in on this forum? I watch it on TV a lot. I've done it myself in races with longer caravans. Last PRT road race I did about 10 of us did it after a climb, passing right by the official's car at the end.

Again, I don't see that as a gray area. You have to get by the cars to get to the group in the first place. I don't see what the problem is.

Or just a solo car after a mechanical? I don't know about that one. Flat tires and the like...eh, get back in however you can.
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Old 06-06-18, 10:17 AM
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I’m just responding to the post. Not talking about tv.
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Old 06-06-18, 11:01 AM
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what's a long period of time? it's not clearly communicated in the way I wrote it, but I'm talking about like a few pedal strokes (follow) and go around (surge). gray.
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