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running during off season?

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Old 12-07-18, 06:02 PM
  #51  
gsteinb
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Is the winter for easy miles and not letting things slip? I always approached it as the time to make gains.
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Old 12-07-18, 07:04 PM
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The suggestion didn't actually preclude making gains, did it? It's logical, given that traditionally you'd do base miles in off-season, which has been criticized for various reasons including lacking in intense and/or structured training, that a more formal running regime on top of those easy miles wouldn't hurt the condition of your legs (that everyone is worried about), while providing some of the benefits that you're missing.

But if you don't think so, or it's an either/or choice in your consideration, fine with me. I'm just asking.
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Old 12-07-18, 07:49 PM
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I don't know. VT1 is a highway in VT to me, not sure how it relates to cycling, so perhaps you're saying something different than I'm reading. I see words like minimal and easy, with "a little intensity' thrown in and see something that at least for me would be way easier than what would be supportive of my winter goals.
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Old 12-07-18, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
I don't know. VT1 is a highway in VT to me, not sure how it relates to cycling, so perhaps you're saying something different than I'm reading. I see words like minimal and easy, with "a little intensity' thrown in and see something that at least for me would be way easier than what would be supportive of my winter goals.
It basically means increased breathing - I'm sure you train harder than that. VT2 is about where you are breathing so hard you can't talk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilatory_threshold
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Old 12-09-18, 11:59 AM
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Nothing all that complicated. From looking at this sort of analysis (Intervals, Thresholds, and Long Slow Distance: the Role of Intensity
and Duration in Endurance Training
), and from what I've seen casually of so-called polarized training,

with recorded responses:


it looks like the Spanish pros utilized a lot of lower intensity miles during the winter season.

They described it: "Using this “time-in-zone” approach, we found that 91 % of all training time was spent at a heart rate below VT1 intensity, ~6 % between VT1 and VT2, and only 2.6 % of all 15-s heart rate registrations were performed above VT2"

And I'm sure you'll inform me if I'm wrong, but I gather that this is a pretty common approach for cyclists training for racing. Now I am asking not informing as I do not train for cycling races - maybe running races - and I cannot do high intensity or even VO2max comfortably in the cold, doing those indoors only in winter, so I am asking you to consider - speculate - that the orange/red elements of the charts might be just as effective if replacing the cycling off-season high intensity with running intervals training. .
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Old 12-09-18, 12:03 PM
  #56  
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While those things might be true, you’re asking pwople
with decades of experience in the sport to consider something as if you’re explaining the world isn’t flat.youre citing information from 2007. In reality we’re not Spanish pros riding 5-8 hours a day. Were we, than indeed many could get by on that sort of training. In reality most folks have minimal training hours, and their races are ultimately pretty short. As such that much time at low heart rates might not be the most effective use of time, or work on the sort of things they’ll actually see in a race.

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Old 12-09-18, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
While those things might be true, you’re asking pwople
with decades of experience in the sport to consider something as if you’re explaining the world isn’t flat.youre citing information from 2007. In reality we’re not Spanish pros riding 5-8 hours a day. Were we, than indeed many could get by on that sort of training. In reality most folks have minimal training hours, and their races are ultimately pretty short. As such that much time at low heart rates might not be the most effective use of time, or work on the sort of things they’ll actually see in a race.
It's the topic of this thread, not something I just threw in, so don't put that on me. But if your "decades in the sport" informs that it's a "world is flat" question from a decade ago and therefore irrelevant, that's at least my answer.
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Old 12-09-18, 12:21 PM
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Actually in fairness my understanding is that the topic was using running as a warmer and more efficient winter pursuit. How it morphed into longer and slower would be a different question.
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Old 12-09-18, 02:33 PM
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I skate skied instead of riding today and yesterday. It beats the trainer. I still get to hang with friends and damn is it hard. It's totally aerobic work using the whole body and the same cycling muscles are sore. Would a 1.5 hour sweetspot bike workout be better in the long run than 1.5 hours on skis? Probably. But then again we have a lot to contend with during a long season, burn out being a huge one. Keeping the mind fresh and doing something different is good for you.
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Old 12-20-18, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronmcd View Post
Why would you run to burn calories when you already ride bikes?
An hour run at 7.5 minute pace (160 lbs) would burn ~1000 calories
An hour ride at 3.5 w/kg (160 lbs) would burn ~1000 calories

Hell, for me, a kind-of-easy-ish-but-still-sucky-cuz-I'm-not-in-running-shape "run" would be like 4 miles at a 10 minute pace = 480 calories
A cray-ultra-easy-feel-like-I-did-nothing-slower-than-grandma recovery ride would be like an hour at 120 watts = 480 calories
Because I can't always ride the bike. Or even when I have 30 minutes after the kid goes to bed, I can get on the treadmill immediately and jog.
If I had the capacity to just ride more, I would. Believe me.

Originally Posted by Ttoc6 View Post
I skate skied instead of riding today and yesterday. It beats the trainer. I still get to hang with friends and damn is it hard. It's totally aerobic work using the whole body and the same cycling muscles are sore. Would a 1.5 hour sweetspot bike workout be better in the long run than 1.5 hours on skis? Probably. But then again we have a lot to contend with during a long season, burn out being a huge one. Keeping the mind fresh and doing something different is good for you.
Exactly. Your cross-sport of choice doesn't have to directly benefit your chosen competitive sport. If it makes you happy, keeps you active, and keeps you motivated, then it's worth it.
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Old 12-20-18, 10:02 AM
  #61  
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Winter riding outdoors can suck balls sometimes. Meaning that instead of doing nothing or cheating an indoors ride for boredom....running can give a great aerobic engine workout in shorter time.

Not to mention burn those holidays and winter eating habit calories very efficiently.

I find running helps out of saddle efforts.

Don’t totally neglect doing some bike pursuit, sprint, TT efforts in winter by any means. Toss in a few. But perhaps aren’t the “staple” workouts at the time.

Just my uninformed opinion.
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Old 12-20-18, 10:46 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6 View Post
I skate skied instead of riding today and yesterday. It beats the trainer. I still get to hang with friends and damn is it hard. It's totally aerobic work using the whole body and the same cycling muscles are sore. Would a 1.5 hour sweetspot bike workout be better in the long run than 1.5 hours on skis? Probably. But then again we have a lot to contend with during a long season, burn out being a huge one. Keeping the mind fresh and doing something different is good for you.

the difference is probably very negligible and building up the posterior chain up through the back has benefit to your entire life (and probably sprinting)
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