Road is Dead!
#51
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Indeed. Some don't have permits, officials, sanctioning, etc. Like gravel events (many of them at least). It's all well and good until someone dies while racing like we had happen in ours. Chicago Bike Racing: Pieter Ombregt
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#53
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Our weeknight races in PDX (2 nights at the auto race track, 1 series at a local park) are sanctioned races and probably have the highest turnout of any road races in the Portland area. They do pay fees to the race track and park, but I'm sure it is far less than fees to close public roads and have police present.
#54
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Indeed. Some don't have permits, officials, sanctioning, etc. Like gravel events (many of them at least). It's all well and good until someone dies while racing like we had happen in ours. Chicago Bike Racing: Pieter Ombregt
#55
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People still die in races. The death I linked to above was USA Cycling sanctioned racing.
Sanctioning and permitting goes a long way towards making what is already a dangerous hobby a helluva lot safer. So much so that insurance companies are willing to cover events when they are sanctioned. The insurance is what has the ability to help make sure that when a tragedy happens that all of the people even remotely associated with the event don't have all of their lives destroyed as well.
All race surcharges are going up substantially this year because of the higher insurance premiums that resulted from the major settlements USA Cycling made in the last couple of years. Largest being the racing death of Casey Saunders in 2017 in Kansas City. https://www.kansascity.com/news/loca...158911784.html
So... "Does city permitting prevent racing deaths or make racing safer? Ditto for the presence of USAC officials or the fact that USAC has sanctioned a race?" Absolutely yes 1000 times over. You don't have to take my word for it though just ask any insurance agency who is willing to cover events whether or not they charge more or would even cover an event that wasn't sanctioned or have officials who are there to monitor the safety of the course. They don't screw around with esoteric discussions about a sport. They calculate risks and make money off of those calculations.
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#56
RacingBear
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Not to mention if you want to do a crit on public roads you need to get permit if you want closed course.
Here we have a mid week training race. Only reason it works is because traffic is very, very light. You sign up a waver, which I suspect is not enforceable, and got at it. There is volunteer on one of the corners that tries to get a green for right turn, but other then that it's up to racers no to be stupid....
Here we have a mid week training race. Only reason it works is because traffic is very, very light. You sign up a waver, which I suspect is not enforceable, and got at it. There is volunteer on one of the corners that tries to get a green for right turn, but other then that it's up to racers no to be stupid....
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In the topic of safe routes for informal rides....
The local ride “A” I do has the stupidest route I’ve ever seen.
It has 30 turns in 22 miles. I’ve solo ridden a version I do of the route that’s 90% the same but has just half or less turns.
I know how they made it, they appear to have used a severely outdated city bike route map. And done a few things to probably avoid a hill or two.
I presented a safer alternative and nobody cared. I ride the safer route when I ride alone and it also flows twice as nicely.
Oh well.
The local ride “A” I do has the stupidest route I’ve ever seen.
It has 30 turns in 22 miles. I’ve solo ridden a version I do of the route that’s 90% the same but has just half or less turns.
I know how they made it, they appear to have used a severely outdated city bike route map. And done a few things to probably avoid a hill or two.
I presented a safer alternative and nobody cared. I ride the safer route when I ride alone and it also flows twice as nicely.
Oh well.
#58
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Unfortunately, I am a 46 year old late comer to racing, though I've ridden in some form or fashion most of my life. I must say, this is the most damn depressing/disheartening thread I've read and after reading Rob's post from Feb 6, it's a wonder that any crits get put on at all. Nothing like getting all excited and revved up about a passion only to find out that it's in its death throes.
#59
Senior Member
Unfortunately, I am a 46 year old late comer to racing, though I've ridden in some form or fashion most of my life. I must say, this is the most damn depressing/disheartening thread I've read and after reading Rob's post from Feb 6, it's a wonder that any crits get put on at all. Nothing like getting all excited and revved up about a passion only to find out that it's in its death throes.
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Unfortunately, I am a 46 year old late comer to racing, though I've ridden in some form or fashion most of my life. I must say, this is the most damn depressing/disheartening thread I've read and after reading Rob's post from Feb 6, it's a wonder that any crits get put on at all. Nothing like getting all excited and revved up about a passion only to find out that it's in its death throes.
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Where are you located? While what is posted here is true in general/on average, there are hot spots of participation, and even in some areas like SoCal, a decreased participation is still much more racing than most of the country on average. I was pleasantly reminded of this last weekend with full fields (upgrade points-wise) at Roger Millikan.
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Unfortunately, I am a 46 year old late comer to racing, though I've ridden in some form or fashion most of my life. I must say, this is the most damn depressing/disheartening thread I've read and after reading Rob's post from Feb 6, it's a wonder that any crits get put on at all. Nothing like getting all excited and revved up about a passion only to find out that it's in its death throes.
IMO in 20-30 or so years when vehicles are mostly autonomous, cycling will rise up.
#67
out walking the earth
Not sure how this is a data point. Firstly, it's not really 'road.' And secondly three of the races are in international locations. Plus there's a local fixed gear series in New York which would indicate there's some interest in this ridiculous pursuit. And let's be clear, these things are utterly ridiculous and have very little to do with anything approaching real cycling.
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Meh - I remember the last time I talked to Doug Zell (Intelligentsia and now Allied Bicycles) and he was raving about Red Hook. Granted this was like 3 years or so ago.
"Finally someone has figured out the right way to market crit racing. They've nailed the story and the aesthetics."
...but like everyone else who does that they have flashed and are gone. I would venture to say none of us are actually surprised.
They ran a fixed gear omnium as a part of ToAD and the Intelligentsia Cup and last year's participation was woefully small and reserved to just the local hipsters that still actually ride a fixed gear on the roads.
So g - yes Doug felt that this was real road and the future of it. Come back and drop his ass in a crit will ya?
"Finally someone has figured out the right way to market crit racing. They've nailed the story and the aesthetics."
...but like everyone else who does that they have flashed and are gone. I would venture to say none of us are actually surprised.
They ran a fixed gear omnium as a part of ToAD and the Intelligentsia Cup and last year's participation was woefully small and reserved to just the local hipsters that still actually ride a fixed gear on the roads.
So g - yes Doug felt that this was real road and the future of it. Come back and drop his ass in a crit will ya?
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#69
Blast from the Past
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We're always a Tour de France winner away from it not being in its death throes. The sport is in a massive depression right now, but it'll rise at some point....could be 5 years could be 20.
IMO in 20-30 or so years when vehicles are mostly autonomous, cycling will rise up.
IMO in 20-30 or so years when vehicles are mostly autonomous, cycling will rise up.
I live in a pretty busy and growing area. Lots of good and well paying jobs. Problem is, in the US we don't concentrate cities and towns. We sprawl. We don't do public transit and alternate transport.
All of this eats up land and all of this clogs country roads and city streets.
To the organizer's points, this pushes them further and further out trying to find venues for actual "road" events.
I can't see it improving in my area as suburbs keep pushing further and further out. Now clogging more and more country roads up with fast and ignorant drivers. Not to mention making road closures probably nearly impossible.
You can do a country road route and see more and more new development popping up. Another 10 to 12 house neighborhood. Another 150 house neighborhood. Etc....
#72
Senior Member
I'll play advocate here and say I disagree. Particularly on the east coast.
I live in a pretty busy and growing area. Lots of good and well paying jobs. Problem is, in the US we don't concentrate cities and towns. We sprawl. We don't do public transit and alternate transport.
All of this eats up land and all of this clogs country roads and city streets.
To the organizer's points, this pushes them further and further out trying to find venues for actual "road" events.
I can't see it improving in my area as suburbs keep pushing further and further out. Now clogging more and more country roads up with fast and ignorant drivers. Not to mention making road closures probably nearly impossible.
You can do a country road route and see more and more new development popping up. Another 10 to 12 house neighborhood. Another 150 house neighborhood. Etc....
I live in a pretty busy and growing area. Lots of good and well paying jobs. Problem is, in the US we don't concentrate cities and towns. We sprawl. We don't do public transit and alternate transport.
All of this eats up land and all of this clogs country roads and city streets.
To the organizer's points, this pushes them further and further out trying to find venues for actual "road" events.
I can't see it improving in my area as suburbs keep pushing further and further out. Now clogging more and more country roads up with fast and ignorant drivers. Not to mention making road closures probably nearly impossible.
You can do a country road route and see more and more new development popping up. Another 10 to 12 house neighborhood. Another 150 house neighborhood. Etc....
#73
Senior Member
People keep sending that link to me. I have tried on like 4 instances to attempt reading it. Every time I get a little in and just have to walk away. It's immensely pollyannaish - naive. There's plenty wrong and there's plenty of solutions. Fact is we're in an immense downswing that is affecting racing and the industry as a whole.
Will we come out of it? At this point not many think so.
As far as track - it's shown immense growth recently albeit doubling a quarter still leaves you with only $0.50.
I am personally working on a large project for track that I hope will have national implications that could actually affect the long term outlook of the sport in this nation and foster actual development of our future racers.
Accepting applications from billionaire philanthropists. We have a few who have committed to giving us meetings but that's it. As with all things cycling I am not the first to try and I won't be the last. Hopefully it will be big enough though that people in 20 years will be like, "No they tried that already. it had some serious early success but then people just didn't want to do it. that was around the ultimate rise of e-sports and the death of actual sporting. Remember that?"
Will we come out of it? At this point not many think so.
As far as track - it's shown immense growth recently albeit doubling a quarter still leaves you with only $0.50.
I am personally working on a large project for track that I hope will have national implications that could actually affect the long term outlook of the sport in this nation and foster actual development of our future racers.
Accepting applications from billionaire philanthropists. We have a few who have committed to giving us meetings but that's it. As with all things cycling I am not the first to try and I won't be the last. Hopefully it will be big enough though that people in 20 years will be like, "No they tried that already. it had some serious early success but then people just didn't want to do it. that was around the ultimate rise of e-sports and the death of actual sporting. Remember that?"
Last 5 times I visited Northbrook out of nostalgia did not see anything that looked like track racing. More like weightlifters with a super-expensive sideline. The bleachers at Northbrook used to be SRO every Thursday. The show was entertaining. Most in the stands did not know spit about racing, they could appreciate a show.
#74
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Not sure how to phrase this w/o saying things I should not. Perhaps you are aware there is an alternate sanctioning body in your immediate vicinity? They do have a billionaire philanthropist on board. Very accessible person.
Last 5 times I visited Northbrook out of nostalgia did not see anything that looked like track racing. More like weightlifters with a super-expensive sideline. The bleachers at Northbrook used to be SRO every Thursday. The show was entertaining. Most in the stands did not know spit about racing, they could appreciate a show.
Last 5 times I visited Northbrook out of nostalgia did not see anything that looked like track racing. More like weightlifters with a super-expensive sideline. The bleachers at Northbrook used to be SRO every Thursday. The show was entertaining. Most in the stands did not know spit about racing, they could appreciate a show.
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#75
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CA has this proposed bill prize compensation: gender equity
"awards prize compensation, as defined, to competitors in gendered categories, a requirement that the prize compensation be identical between the gendered categories at each participant level."
If it passes it affects sports in CA - Like ToC and many local races.
It might:
-Eliminate all prizes for sport.
-Eliminate one gender's sport
-drive cycling to a different model similar to what I proposed, fondo like or skill differentiation, rather than gender and age.
"awards prize compensation, as defined, to competitors in gendered categories, a requirement that the prize compensation be identical between the gendered categories at each participant level."
If it passes it affects sports in CA - Like ToC and many local races.
It might:
-Eliminate all prizes for sport.
-Eliminate one gender's sport
-drive cycling to a different model similar to what I proposed, fondo like or skill differentiation, rather than gender and age.
Last edited by Doge; 05-11-19 at 07:53 AM.