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-   -   Incorrect results in USA cycling. Any way to fix? (https://www.bikeforums.net/33-road-bike-racing/1177836-incorrect-results-usa-cycling-any-way-fix.html)

Radish_legs 07-09-19 08:11 AM

Incorrect results in USA cycling. Any way to fix?
 
Quick recap: won a crit, official posted results in the minutes after showed me as 1st place. I have a picture of said posted results. So that's not in dispute. I also have video of the race. But when they submitted to USA cycling, they bungled it and gave me 10th place. And messed up a number of other places. They now tell me, once submitted to USA cycling, it can't be changed. And "oh well, sorry." Is that true? Can't be fixed?

topflightpro 07-09-19 08:53 AM

The promoter can change it with USAC, though it's not an easy process and the promoter may not want to go through the hassle, especially if it is a minor weeknight or training race.

USAC won't change it based on your comments.

rubiksoval 07-09-19 12:19 PM

I emailed USAC about some seriously messed up results and they said to tell the promoter to correct them. So, I'd go to the promoter.

Doge 07-09-19 07:01 PM

Do you have a picture of the final results AFTER 15 min protest period.

ziggie204 07-09-19 09:27 PM


Originally Posted by Radish_legs (Post 21018301)
Quick recap: won a crit, official posted results in the minutes after showed me as 1st place. I have a picture of said posted results. So that's not in dispute. I also have video of the race. But when they submitted to USA cycling, they bungled it and gave me 10th place. And messed up a number of other places. They now tell me, once submitted to USA cycling, it can't be changed. And "oh well, sorry." Is that true? Can't be fixed?

Normally when a mate gets frustrated with his 15th place result being wrong, I tell him to win the next race and they'll get it right. I guess that turns out not to be true either. . . who knew.

furiousferret 07-10-19 08:11 AM

I've had a lot of results not record right; if I race Ontario same day registration its not going to post on my official results; and that's like 5-10 races I missed. I really haven't done anything because they're not good enough for points but they are good enough for the Cat 3 pity upgrade.

Another race I did the guy who was dead last appeared to be friends with the promoter and was magically bumped 10 places; although I don't like it we're losing enough promoters as is so I just keep my mouth shut.

topflightpro 07-10-19 08:37 AM

USAC's system is antiquated. So, mistakes can happen. I've shown up in races I didn't do and shown up twice in the same race.

Psimet2001 07-10-19 05:28 PM

It's an easy fix. Promoter simply has to correct the file and re-upload it. If the results are already in a spreadsheet then it can take a few minutes.

We're spoiled in Illinois. We have a "reg system" that was designed and worked out and fixed over the last 10 years using Bikereg, all versions of the USAC databases and our own front end. Uploading results takes a few seconds and our officials usually do it once they get home or while at the race if we have internet access. I don't often have to upload the results as a promoter but I have definitely done it and sometime in the last 3-4 years as well.

End of the day - promoter is 100% responsible for all results and for posting them correctly to USA Cycling. If not corrected - posted results are different than what was posted for protest at the race - then file a complaint with your local association. It is their responsibility to work with their local promoters. If that doesn't work then just keep stepping it up the ladder. Big thing is if you can get the promoter to admit the results on the site are incorrect then the rest will go pretty quickly. If they won't admit they are incorrect then you're in for a lot of frustration with a bunch of people who really don't want to help you or see much of a point. *shrug*

TimmyT 07-12-19 03:27 PM

Yeah, I've had two weeknight crit races put me a lap or laps down despite being off the back but not lapped. I wasn't 1st, and the result doesn't matter.
The promoter has enough to do at the crit, but he should make the results available 15 minutes after the race. I find it annoying, still. At that point, you look at it, tell the guy, he makes a note, and it's done. If I were to do it the next day, it's a minimum of 3 emails.

carpediemracing 07-12-19 09:59 PM


Originally Posted by Radish_legs (Post 21018301)
Quick recap: won a crit, official posted results in the minutes after showed me as 1st place. I have a picture of said posted results. So that's not in dispute. I also have video of the race. But when they submitted to USA cycling, they bungled it and gave me 10th place. And messed up a number of other places. They now tell me, once submitted to USA cycling, it can't be changed. And "oh well, sorry." Is that true? Can't be fixed?

It can be fixed. The promoter can actually edit the page while on the results page on USAC's site, so no uploads necessary. However it's very clunky like that, better to upload a new spreadsheet.

I should point out that the last time I did this nonsense was in 2015, so maybe things are a bit different. I did poke around this spring at other USAC stuff, but not the results bit, and it seemed to be pretty much the same.

Radish_legs 07-16-19 09:00 AM

I called USA cycling, and they said it can just be reuploaded. So now I'm circling back to the "promoter team" and asking them again to fix it. We'll see what happens.

echappist 07-16-19 12:36 PM

the promoter should be able to fix it

a few years ago, I saw that I apparently participated in a race 5 hours from where I lived, never mind the fact that I wasn't actually at the race. A short email to the promoter was all that was needed to get it sorted

the promoter of your event is giving you a run-around

Radish_legs 07-16-19 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by echappist (Post 21030082)
the promoter should be able to fix it

a few years ago, I saw that I apparently participated in a race 5 hours from where I lived, never mind the fact that I wasn't actually at the race. A short email to the promoter was all that was needed to get it sorted

the promoter of your event is giving you a run-around

Never ascribe to malice that which may be better ascribed to incompetence.

It's good customer service to get the results right.

Flatballer 07-16-19 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by echappist (Post 21030082)
the promoter should be able to fix it

a few years ago, I saw that I apparently participated in a race 5 hours from where I lived, never mind the fact that I wasn't actually at the race. A short email to the promoter was all that was needed to get it sorted

the promoter of your event is giving you a run-around

Did you win?

Radish_legs 07-16-19 03:37 PM


Originally Posted by Flatballer (Post 21030289)
Did you win?

Yes, I won. And I am 10th on USA cycling.

Flatballer 07-16-19 03:50 PM


Originally Posted by Radish_legs (Post 21030443)
Yes, I won. And I am 10th on USA cycling.

I meant echappist in the race he wasn't in.

echappist 07-16-19 08:11 PM


Originally Posted by Flatballer (Post 21030289)
Did you win?

of course not; they at least got the winner correct (i hope)

no idea how they even got my name and usac license in the first place

gsteinb 07-17-19 02:55 AM


Originally Posted by Radish_legs (Post 21030091)
Never ascribe to malice that which may be better ascribed to incompetence.

It's good customer service to get the results right.

the customer service model is wrong for race promotion, which is why promoters pull out. there's no money or glory in it. when you expect a race promoter to act like amazon or disney or even your local 7-11 it all falls apart. go do another race that day, or take up running. the promoter's life will inevitably be better if he was doing something other than putting on a race. Should the results be right? Sure. But mistakes happen, and now someone has to go back and fix them. Which they may not know how to do. Simple for you, or someone else, perhaps. But maybe not for a promoter who doesn't know how, and has moved back to real life stuff...family, job, etc.

Radish_legs 07-17-19 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 21031141)
the customer service model is wrong for race promotion, which is why promoters pull out. there's no money or glory in it. when you expect a race promoter to act like amazon or disney or even your local 7-11 it all falls apart. go do another race that day, or take up running. the promoter's life will inevitably be better if he was doing something other than putting on a race. Should the results be right? Sure. But mistakes happen, and now someone has to go back and fix them. Which they may not know how to do. Simple for you, or someone else, perhaps. But maybe not for a promoter who doesn't know how, and has moved back to real life stuff...family, job, etc.

I have the same issues of real life, and perhaps the promoter can't be bothered to provide customer service, and I can't be bothered to participate in his races. If it was a huge hassle to fix, ok fine. If it's just a matter of resubmitting, then just do it.

topflightpro 07-17-19 09:05 AM

I think the point GStein is making is that you are expecting a level of service as though you are a customer instead of the service level given to a person benefiting from the charity of another.

The promoter probably isn't making any money off the races, and more likely than not, is doing this in their spare time to provide a place for people to race. At this point, bicycle race promotion is more akin to a charity than a business, and bike racers are receiving that charity support.

Yeah, it sucks that you're listed as not having won the race, but did you get your payout at the time? Do you need the upgrade points?

Radish_legs 07-17-19 12:31 PM

The promoter has a team of people that take care of this stuff. I have contacted two of the underlings to request fixing it. I have not "escalated" it to the actual promoter himself. I have not put anyone on public blast locally. It's all very low-key.

I just want my win (my only freaking win) to be in the Book of Life.

Spoonrobot 07-17-19 12:54 PM

gsteinb and topflightpro are putting up exceptionally bad takes. Nobody should ever look at bike race promotion as a charity. You paid for a service that the promoter agreed to supply. Absolutely you should expect to have it fixed. Racers & promoters agree to abide by the rules in the USAC rulebook which clearly spells out the responsibilities for both parties - page 38 would specifically be relevant to this issue.

Friends and new acquaintances look up USAC results all the time. Tell someone you won a race and it shows you at 10th? Now you look like a liar and a chump. I'd grind my teeth if I had to asterisk my only win every time I told someone about it.

Beaker 07-28-19 02:13 PM

Background - I've been the results guy for a local race for the last 7yrs or so, and can say that the number of times getting a fix is more complicated than it appears exceeds the number of times it's a simple fix. A couple of things to consider (and yes, I know I'm posting almost 2wks late, but maybe this helps?)

1) Race promoters/results folks do upload the results, but determination of placings is actually the responsibility of the chief ref and his/her team. Whenever I'm running results, we have an explicit understanding that changes should go through the officials - it's the way it's supposed to work. In the event that things get weird on you, which from time to time happens, it helps to have an official opinion on this to fall back on rather than "my mate at the club fixed it for me". I'll collect contested results and batch them to officials once a day or so. (fortunately not that many of them for us ;-) )

2) Results are collected by the finishing order of bib numbers recorded by officials at the finish line (why bib number placement is so important). We normally have 3 officials so there's quite a bit of redundancy in scoring finishes, but they also have back up high speed video in the event of contested results. In our district, it is possible to go back and get a review of the finishes.

3) Most important of all - if you want to contest a result, do it as soon after the event as you can. If you need to get video review involved (we've done this several times, sometimes frame by frame to pick apart very close finished), you need to get that in the first week or so, before the next weekend's races take away time from officials. The more detail you provide the better - witnesses, colors of jersey, who was around you etc.

4) I do agree with the customer service point - whenever I'm "that guy" that responds to complaints coming into our club, I always try to be courteous and acknowledge every request. We are in the business of providing good experiences for our racers - and god knows we need repeat business these days. Expecting a response from a promoter or their team is not at all unreasonable IMO.

5) Sometimes stuff just happens. Results get messed up, it's impossible to untangle, we have an impasse between a he said/she said situation. Be nice to the race officials who put in hours of their time to make races happen.
@Raddish_legs, not saying that your situation is this complex, but thought some perspective from the other side of the equation might help resolution (hopefully fixed by now?)

Radish_legs 07-28-19 10:04 PM

Thanks for the perspective. The fact that the results are wrong is not contested, as far as I know. The races are all chipped. The chipped results are correct. The chipped results were printed and posted. I have a picture of the printed results that were posted. One of the guys who works with the promoter created a program that takes the chipped results and posts them to a website. Unfortunately if you raced more than once, his program adds laps from both races and docks you positions. That’s how I got 10th instead of 1st. Apparently the guy who made the program and is in charge of posting the results to USA cycling is “out of pocket.” So nothing has been fixed for me. I’ve now reached out to 3 other people, and all 3 point the finger at the guy who is not responding. There are people who are getting upset about the delay in results being posted to USA cycling. I guess they have upgrades waiting on the points.

Speaking of chips. All the Crits here require the use of a chip. Except for the one in Fort Worth. Which is the least-attended. However even with the chips, mistakes are still made.

topflightpro 07-29-19 06:04 AM

Beaker, those are good points. I can't count how many times we've gone back to the video with the officials and just could not read the numbers, and in some cases, couldn't even determine the correct jersey color because of the angle of the sun in to the camera.


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