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USAC changes to upgrade points

Old 02-12-20, 11:48 PM
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I feel like points are too generous now. Although changing to counting whole field I think is a step in right direction.
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Old 02-26-20, 04:01 PM
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Chuck Hodge was pretty adamant the change was to clear the logjam from 5->3.

The new points are interesting. That said some riders I have known who were ready to quit the sport because they just couldn't seem to get that last point or two and who were driving around trying to find the field sizes and category setups they needed where just pushed over the top with points for the 2's.

Remember- the same people are racing. There's now only a slightly better chance that they might be racing int he category they are really supposed to be racing in and that cat 2 actually will mean something now instead of just saying 1/2 in the same breath. They really should just be the good 3's...not only the slow 1's.

The Novice to 4 thing is BS but whatever. The idea of novice and only paying $40 can help. I hope it does.

I will continue to be a 4 forever.
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Old 02-27-20, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Chuck Hodge was pretty adamant the change was to clear the logjam from 5->3.

The new points are interesting. That said some riders I have known who were ready to quit the sport because they just couldn't seem to get that last point or two and who were driving around trying to find the field sizes and category setups they needed where just pushed over the top with points for the 2's.
What do you suppose those folks do after the Williams Brothers, Cliff or Echelon rips them a new *******?
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Old 02-27-20, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
What do you suppose those folks do after the Williams Brothers, Cliff or Echelon rips them a new *******?
I'd like to see more P/1 races because of this. P/1/2 is too much of a mixed bag. In a perfect world, there would still be 3 races but the categories would be lumped 4/5, 2/3, and P/1/2 with the 2's being split by how many points they've accumulated towards their 1 upgrade. As soon as you upgrade, you should be one of the slower dudes in the next category and upgrades would take longer.

It might make for a huge 2/3 field with a lot of stagnation, but most of the 2's I know don't belong anywhere near a legit P/1 field.
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Old 02-27-20, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
I'd like to see more P/1 races because of this. P/1/2 is too much of a mixed bag. In a perfect world, there would still be 3 races but the categories would be lumped 4/5, 2/3, and P/1/2 with the 2's being split by how many points they've accumulated towards their 1 upgrade. As soon as you upgrade, you should be one of the slower dudes in the next category and upgrades would take longer.

It might make for a huge 2/3 field with a lot of stagnation, but most of the 2's I know don't belong anywhere near a legit P/1 field.
I can get onboard with this depending on the size of the event. I talk about it a lot, but I can be in a race next to a guy that was in the World Tour last year and next to a kid who was a cat 3 last week. That's insane...it's kind of awesome...but mostly insane.
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Old 02-27-20, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Spesh View Post
I can get onboard with this depending on the size of the event. I talk about it a lot, but I can be in a race next to a guy that was in the World Tour last year and next to a kid who was a cat 3 last week. That's insane...it's kind of awesome...but mostly insane.
I think it's too easy to get through the lower ranks. Going from 4->3 should require more, which might alleviate massive clumping.
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Old 02-28-20, 07:57 AM
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At this point, given racer turnout, I would expect to see more and more P/1/2/3 races. Around here, it would be very hard to justify a P/1 and separate 2/3 field. There just aren't enough people showing up anymore.
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Old 03-02-20, 07:08 AM
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I may have a new opinion on this after this past Saturday. Iím currently thinking about it.
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Old 03-02-20, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I may have a new opinion on this after this past Saturday. Iím currently thinking about it.
What happened?
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Old 03-02-20, 01:52 PM
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Well everyone. Was 2nd wheel with 200 to go about to destroy all. Wake up 15 seconds later after apparently going OTB and on my face for a dnf.

No idea what happened. Post mortem so far is bike has a flat front tire with some rash on one side. Could have been during crash. No wheel damage and bike has a few scratches I can see.

Myself? CT and xrays negative, but it was bad. I finally looked on a mirror today to clean instead of going by feel as I was afraid to look.

We played that race perfectly and I made the perfect move at the end to have us 3 or 4 few gap for the line....just to go OTB and not even know what happened.

Last photo is of me 2nd wheel with maybe 300m to go. Taken by a not racing teammate who had to watch it.

So, my opinion on the upgrades thing is that I think perhaps they should separate out road points for 4/5. For going to 4 and then to 3. I donít want to send you guys some of the wanker stuff I saw before my untimely ending of the race. The yellow line rule creates a rough dynamic where in a crit folks can space out.

Over the yellow a ton. Sketch stuff. Not enough road features to separate the people either.

No idea the answer. Ignore my suggestion, but something. They could have yanked a dozen guys for flagrant over the yellow issues repeated times. Not sure how theyíd yank em. Moto speaker?

I was in the ER a college kid arrived also. Heard later they got 7 of us that day.

I didnít know it was a poor choice to do this particular race.

Maybe only parking lot crits now? Dunno.
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Old 03-02-20, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post

Myself? CT and xrays negative, but it was bad. I finally looked on a mirror today to clean instead of going by feel as I was afraid to look.
Pics, man! Pics!
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Old 03-02-20, 04:09 PM
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Pre race with teammate. He pulled so smooth that day. Perfectly getting us up front the whole time but not working. Also even hiding on the correct side of cross winds. He called the wife and took care of a lot of stuff. He has some beer and a meal coming his way. Also, I give that helmet a zero. It's the right size, but seeing pictures it sits too high. My beanie is super thin and it's seated all the way, and fully forward too. Totally spending goooood money and gooooood fit on next one.


I'm 3rd wheel here. There's a quick but simple right hander about a mile out. We hammered that corner and got separation and stayed up front. I'm guessing this photo was at about 350m to go. The guys with me went side by side at about 300m to go. I was about to go left of the lefthand guy then tear em up real bad. They were strong but I had it......until I wokeup on the pavement:

Carnage, helmet: saved my ass for sure


Carnage, glasses: both saved my ass and screwed me up bad, looking at the scratches........I'll take the damage I received over what I didn't if I didn't have glasses on


Me: this is literally 200% better than Saturday. Saturday was a horror movie makeup kit look. They literally gave the face a bath in room temp saline on the hospital bed with mats to soak it up.


Wear your helmet and eye wear boys and girls.

Totally spinning Zwift tomorrow. Even if 100w for 15min. Full indoor workout by Friday should be doable.

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Old 03-02-20, 04:50 PM
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Y i k e s
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Old 03-02-20, 06:43 PM
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BTS...Speechless...heal up fast.
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Old 03-02-20, 08:45 PM
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Heal well BTS. The wounds on your face don't look too deep. My guess is they will hardly scar, and if there is a little scarring, it will add character...
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Old 03-02-20, 08:47 PM
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And come back slowly. You blacked out from some sort of minor concussion or something. You want to take it easy coming back from that. No need for a full on indoor workout by Friday.
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Old 03-03-20, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
I think it's too easy to get through the lower ranks. Going from 4->3 should require more, which might alleviate massive clumping.
We see the opposite. So much so this is what was cited as the reason for the revision. 4's have been log-jammed with sandbagger forever. The Novice field is supposed to be what the 5's were supposed to be: not a field but a quick opportunity to dip the toe in the water and see if you like racing. Therefore the 4s are actually the entry level category that they were always supposed to be. If you have any ability to race your bike at all you should be in the 3's.

We have just killed the whole P/1/2 thing. Killed 3 designations that almost always race in the same race anymore. I get people want to hang their hats on all of that but what has effectively happened is that we've ended up with 1 large field where actual pros race and POS sketchy 3's who upgraded try and hang on. It really should be P/1, 2 or 2/3 and 3 races.
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Old 03-03-20, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Not enough road features to separate the people either.
1st - heal up.

2nd - this is always your answer. Road races: there aren't enough of them. The internet has told everyone that road races are safer. This has led to, in my direct experience, a huge increase of wrecks in road races. Crits have gotten markedly safer (less wrecks) as people have been leaving them and only coming out for the crash fests we now call road races. The root cause is always a course that is too easy. Every course I have ever been on that doesn't have elevation or tech that makes it hard on the racers has ended with a lot of wrecks. As we all know it allows riders who lose ability to think and handle their bikes when they are over the limit to be shot out the back long before it becomes critical.

The yellow line stuff - did you have a moto? If so the moto should be dressed down. IMHO you can't allow anything that even remotely resembles yellow line shenanigans in lower categories. I've been driving wheel trucks and watched good motos give 2 warnings and then neutralize the field as they lectured them.

Watching "Tommy Hothead" get pissed because he was dq'd on the results after he caused a wreck in the final sprint (sorry BTS) only to find he was already out because of yellow line stuff is one of the little bits of joy I still have in my life.
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Old 03-03-20, 11:40 AM
  #44  
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Our "peloton" at one point had multiple motos.

One moto guy did pull a rider aside once to dress them down, but distinctly remember that rider still being in the race later and the stuff kept happening a lot. It was just my opinion that about 10 dudes could have been yanked depending on your strictness.

But yeah, the areas they can put on a RR locally here.........I can't fault a promoter as I have no idea what's available. There's a few little hills out that part of town, but they aren't where you could run a road race and get a permit easily. The Chapel Hill race has distinct features where you can drop half the field on the first lap. Again, I can't comment much on that. My "dream" of where I'd run a RR here is distinctly at odds with the reality of traffic and how our area is laid out.
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Old 03-03-20, 11:42 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
1st - heal up.

2nd - this is always your answer. Road races: there aren't enough of them. The internet has told everyone that road races are safer. This has led to, in my direct experience, a huge increase of wrecks in road races. Crits have gotten markedly safer (less wrecks) as people have been leaving them and only coming out for the crash fests we now call road races. The root cause is always a course that is too easy. Every course I have ever been on that doesn't have elevation or tech that makes it hard on the racers has ended with a lot of wrecks. As we all know it allows riders who lose ability to think and handle their bikes when they are over the limit to be shot out the back long before it becomes critical.

The yellow line stuff - did you have a moto? If so the moto should be dressed down. IMHO you can't allow anything that even remotely resembles yellow line shenanigans in lower categories. I've been driving wheel trucks and watched good motos give 2 warnings and then neutralize the field as they lectured them.

Watching "Tommy Hothead" get pissed because he was dq'd on the results after he caused a wreck in the final sprint (sorry BTS) only to find he was already out because of yellow line stuff is one of the little bits of joy I still have in my life.
unfortunately, enforcement of that rule is not universal. Distinctly recall one road race in Maryland where people just completely disregarded it. Sure, the road was unmarked on the last significant hill of the course (prior to the finish), but the official gave a warning before the race. On the climb up the hill, people still veered halfway over the imaginary midline, including two podium finishers. Zero, zilch, nada came out of the violations.
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Old 03-03-20, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by echappist View Post
unfortunately, enforcement of that rule is not universal. Distinctly recall one road race in Maryland where people just completely disregarded it. Sure, the road was unmarked on the last significant hill of the course (prior to the finish), but the official gave a warning before the race. On the climb up the hill, people still veered halfway over the imaginary midline, including two podium finishers. Zero, zilch, nada came out of the violations.
I've seen both. I have seen races or fields that were allowed to do whatever they wanted and I have seen riders DQ'd and pulled from the field while still out on course for riding on the line and not even moving up. I appreciate when our motos err on the side of being heavy handed.

We had one race where the moto for the P/1/2 field DQ'd or relegated something like 15 riders. The chaos that broke out at the results posting was glorious to watch. It was a race we were hoping was going to end up on the NRC schedule. That year Daniel Holloway and Brandon Feehrey were in it for sure. Fun times.
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