Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

First Race advice and cornering/crash concerns.

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

First Race advice and cornering/crash concerns.

Old 07-20-20, 08:44 PM
  #1  
kevinabbot
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
First Race advice and cornering/crash concerns.

I have my first ever bike race on the first weekend in August so like two weeks away. It is going to be a category 5 criterium basically. Corners flat course etc. Here is the race map: https://d36gb93zszu20a.cloudfront.ne...%20Details.pdf

So my first question. How should I prepare the few days in advance for it. Anything special? My FTP is 250 watts (4.5w/kg) I am a smaller rider so my bigger races are going to be climbing ones so I donít have high expectations (I signed up because I really just wanted to race), but I still want to attack and finish top 1/2 and have fun. I am pretty sure I am strong enough and I will have a teammate racing with me.

Next week I want to not do a lot of endurance riding I just want to practice corners and sprinting as that is relatively low stress on the body.

The BIGGEST QuestionÖ My bike is an allez sprint with DI2 Ultegra and carbon 50mil wheels. tbh I am actually concerned about is my shifters and derailers getting damaged/broken in a crash. I plan on letting small gaps open up by a few feet in corners and I want to try and take the outside for cornering. Aka If it means I have to put in a small effort out of corners it is fine because I will still be upright. I say this because I know I am not the most confident when cornering even though GP5000ís have given me more confidence recently.

I am also curious for a cat 5 race in the standard right hand turns (like stop sign turns) how fast should I be taking them (assuming dry fair condition road). Right now I can take them at 22mph so is that fast enough or are my going to cause a crash because I am going slower then everyone else.

Thank you!
kevinabbot is offline  
Old 07-21-20, 05:55 AM
  #2  
Phatman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 3,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by kevin****t View Post
. tbh I am actually concerned about is my shifters and derailers getting damaged/broken in a crash. I plan on letting small gaps open up by a few feet in corners and I want to try and take the outside for cornering. Aka If it means I have to put in a small effort out of corners it is fine because I will still be upright.
If you do this, you wonít have to worry about being taken out in a crash because you will be riding by yourself off the back of the group.

Corner at the speed of the guy in front of you, following their line. I know thatís tricky advice in the Cat5s because most people suck at handling bikes in that category, but if they make it though, itís unlikely that you wonít. Donít look at your bike computer when cornering. Or really at all. I think the only time itís acceptable to look at your computer is on a solo break, but even thatís questionable.

As for training prep, take it easy the week before, do a couple shorter efforts with good recovery the day before and remember to warm up well before the race.
Phatman is online now  
Old 07-21-20, 06:43 AM
  #3  
TMonk
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 11,542

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked 451 Times in 235 Posts
+1, go the same speed as the group through the corners. Doing it slower or faster is unsafe. If you're worried about the safety of being in the pack, I suggest you attack early and often
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 07-21-20, 07:44 AM
  #4  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,874
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1523 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 165 Posts
As other said, go the speed of the field. Crashes happen when people try to go faster/slower than others through turns. And watch out for that one guy who will dive bomb the corners even if he doesn't have the line - there's always at least one person in a Cat 5 field who does that. It's okay to leave a little space as you enter into a corner, but don't be surprised if someone takes it.

Read up on some of the other threads and stickies on racing. Crits are less about FTP and more about dealing with surges - How many times can you sprint out of a turn before you run out of matches? It's not uncommon for Cat 5 fields to blow up in the first few laps. Someone usually tries to win from the gun while someone else - usually at the front - can't get clipped in.The first few minutes will be fast, then people will start to fade and things will settle some. If you can make it through the first 5-10 min, you should be fine until the end. If you get dropped, just keep going and ride safely. That could mean slowing on a straight so that the field doesn't catch you in a turn.

As far as tapering this week, I think you should maintain your training intensity, but decrease the volume. So, if you normally do 6 sprints on Tuesday, only do 3 the week of.
topflightpro is offline  
Likes For topflightpro:
Old 07-21-20, 11:09 AM
  #5  
Voodoo76
Blast from the Past
 
Voodoo76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Schertz TX
Posts: 3,143

Bikes: Ridley Excal, CAAD10, CAAD12, Felt DA, Dolan

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Find someplace you and your teammate can spend a little time cornering on a wheel. Industrial park? School? (most are abandoned right now). Nothing like familiarity to gain a little confidence.
Voodoo76 is offline  
Old 07-21-20, 11:32 AM
  #6  
billridesbikes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 53 Posts
You donít have the power to afford to close more than a couple of gaps during the race; even a cat4-5 race on a smooth flat road will be 30mph+. You might think you only have a small gap to close but then youíll realize that 2-3 riders ahead have also let a gap open up and you have to go around them too. Unless you can to do 35mph on your own 3-4 times in an hour youíll be dropped by the fifth lap.

The best strategy is to ride in the front of the group as much as possible, turns are usually pretty smooth at the front of the pack. If you donít have a >1000w sprint you wonít be in contention so unless youíre in a position to lead out your teammate I would drop back a few hundred meters before the finish, as bad things tend to happen in a cat5 sprint especially if there is a $50 gift certificate to Olive Garden or some other classy place for first prize. Youíll be amazed what risks some guys will take for a 7-11 slurpy coupon.

Note: Corning at 22mph is way too slow for an open corner in a crit. Remember youíll have the whole road, so expect to turn at a high speed.

Last edited by billridesbikes; 07-21-20 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Note on cornering
billridesbikes is offline  
Old 07-21-20, 01:12 PM
  #7  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 3,413

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2003 Post(s)
Liked 499 Times in 238 Posts
Kevin, you've spent two years making countless threads and then just disappearing from them.

Since there are so few bike races going on, please come back and tell us how this goes. I'm genuinely interested!
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 07-21-20, 01:53 PM
  #8  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,043
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times in 132 Posts
Kevin!
gsteinb is offline  
Likes For gsteinb:
Old 07-21-20, 02:19 PM
  #9  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 39,011

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2243 Post(s)
Liked 932 Times in 486 Posts
Originally Posted by kevin****t View Post
I have my first ever bike race on the first weekend in August so like two weeks away. It is going to be a category 5 criterium basically. Corners flat course etc. Here is the race map: https://d36gb93zszu20a.cloudfront.ne...%20Details.pdf

So my first question. How should I prepare the few days in advance for it. Anything special? My FTP is 250 watts (4.5w/kg) I am a smaller rider so my bigger races are going to be climbing ones so I donít have high expectations (I signed up because I really just wanted to race), but I still want to attack and finish top 1/2 and have fun. I am pretty sure I am strong enough and I will have a teammate racing with me.

Next week I want to not do a lot of endurance riding I just want to practice corners and sprinting as that is relatively low stress on the body.

The BIGGEST QuestionÖ My bike is an allez sprint with DI2 Ultegra and carbon 50mil wheels. tbh I am actually concerned about is my shifters and derailers getting damaged/broken in a crash. I plan on letting small gaps open up by a few feet in corners and I want to try and take the outside for cornering. Aka If it means I have to put in a small effort out of corners it is fine because I will still be upright. I say this because I know I am not the most confident when cornering even though GP5000ís have given me more confidence recently.

I am also curious for a cat 5 race in the standard right hand turns (like stop sign turns) how fast should I be taking them (assuming dry fair condition road). Right now I can take them at 22mph so is that fast enough or are my going to cause a crash because I am going slower then everyone else.

Thank you!
Looking at this map, there's no way this tactic is going to work when you have to go right-left-right. As others have said, follow the wheel in front of you. Preferably in the first 10 spots or so. Things will be smoother up there. If you get shuffled to the back, the accordion effect will suck up all your watts and then it's just a matter of time before you get popped off the back.
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 07-21-20, 02:53 PM
  #10  
motorthings 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 632
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 3 Posts
if others are making it through a corner at a given speed, odds are good that you can as well, as long as you are smooth and don't panic.
motorthings is offline  
Old 07-21-20, 05:19 PM
  #11  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 11,496
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2054 Post(s)
Liked 557 Times in 323 Posts
Are there any group rides going on currently that you can ride with at speed?
himespau is online now  
Old 07-23-20, 04:43 PM
  #12  
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dirty Jerz
Posts: 20,437
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 46 Posts
So you got a new light bike? Wasn't your last post about how heavy your old bike was?

Use the other one if youre worried about it for your first race.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 07-24-20, 07:41 PM
  #13  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,555

Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1000 Post(s)
Liked 126 Times in 72 Posts
If you’re a Cst 5 with 4.5 w/kg FTP, drill it from the get go. There aren’t too many Cat5’s you won’t drop
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 07-27-20, 10:58 AM
  #14  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 3,413

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2003 Post(s)
Liked 499 Times in 238 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
If youíre a Cst 5 with 4.5 w/kg FTP, drill it from the get go. There arenít too many Cat5ís you wonít drop
But that's doing 250 watts.

He's not dropping anyone doing 250 watts.
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 07-27-20, 04:03 PM
  #15  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,555

Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1000 Post(s)
Liked 126 Times in 72 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
But that's doing 250 watts.

He's not dropping anyone doing 250 watts.

guess it depends on size, and frontal area. For me that would be over 400 watts. I never quite got to that as a Cat 3. Pretty sure if I had an FTP of 425 watts, I would have won more Cat 5 races.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 07-27-20, 04:11 PM
  #16  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,043
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times in 132 Posts
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-29-20, 10:50 AM
  #17  
procrit
carbon is too light
 
procrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,043

Bikes: Yes.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 67 Times in 37 Posts
Cat 5's tend to go out way too hard, just hang on at the beginning and let them burn themselves out. Try to establish and keep a front-ish position early on (top 5-10) to avoid the yo-yo's and squirrely riders. Cat 5 breaks never work, someone will chase it back. Last lap, tell your legs to shut up and go hurt peoples feelings. DO NOT think about how fast you are going into a corner. Unless you are going like 30+ mph on a 90 degree corner (you won't be), your tires will hold. Stay in your drops, keep a low center of gravity, you'll be fine. Trust your equipment and go win it, we need to see a race report after!
procrit is offline  
Old 07-29-20, 12:08 PM
  #18  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 39,011

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2243 Post(s)
Liked 932 Times in 486 Posts
Originally Posted by procrit View Post
Cat 5's tend to go out way too hard, just hang on at the beginning and let them burn themselves out. Try to establish and keep a front-ish position early on (top 5-10) to avoid the yo-yo's and squirrely riders. Cat 5 breaks never work, someone will chase it back. Last lap, tell your legs to shut up and go hurt peoples feelings. DO NOT think about how fast you are going into a corner. Unless you are going like 30+ mph on a 90 degree corner (you won't be), your tires will hold. Stay in your drops, keep a low center of gravity, you'll be fine. Trust your equipment and go win it, we need to see a race report after!
My guess is that Cat 5 races are going to be even worse this way than before, since a bunch of them have been doing Zwift races, which do this excessively. They're all going to think that's how races go in real life.
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 07-29-20, 12:19 PM
  #19  
kensuf
My idea of fun
 
kensuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,887

Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 20 Posts
They'll also try to chase every single thing down.
kensuf is offline  
Likes For kensuf:
Old 07-29-20, 05:47 PM
  #20  
colnago62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,963
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 107 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
My guess is that Cat 5 races are going to be even worse this way than before, since a bunch of them have been doing Zwift races, which do this excessively. They're all going to think that's how races go in real life.
Zwift is building a lot of strong riders with zero bike handling skill.
colnago62 is offline  
Likes For colnago62:
Old 07-30-20, 09:11 AM
  #21  
Phatman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 3,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
Zwift is building a lot of strong riders with zero bike handling skill.
When I raced collegiate a long time ago, the guys and girls from the Naval Academy weren't allowed off campus to train, so 100% of their riding was on trainers. The result was as bad as you'd expect...so many watts mixed with absolutely zero handling ability. Luckily, I've not been riding much for the last year or two, so I'm in the perfectly opposite category. Or maybe neither.
Phatman is online now  
Old 08-03-20, 05:35 PM
  #22  
kevinabbot
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Kevin, you've spent two years making countless threads and then just disappearing from them.

Since there are so few bike races going on, please come back and tell us how this goes. I'm genuinely interested!
Crashed. Everything was going fine. I was sitting in the main group the whole time. Was under/FTP the whole time so I never truly burned a match. Last lap second to last turn I was trying to pass someone did not realize how close I was to the curve and down I went. It was not a confidence issue on my bike it was a lack of focus on the corner. Lessoned learned. I was in a good spot too I was in the top 5 in the last two corners and charging my legs for a sprint (that I knew I was not going to win) but able to keep in the top 5 or 10 at worst (Out of 40 riders).
kevinabbot is offline  
Old 08-03-20, 05:44 PM
  #23  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 13,868
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 732 Times in 449 Posts
Originally Posted by kevin****t View Post
Crashed. Everything was going fine. I was sitting in the main group the whole time. Was under/FTP the whole time so I never truly burned a match. Last lap second to last turn I was trying to pass someone did not realize how close I was to the curve and down I went. It was not a confidence issue on my bike it was a lack of focus on the corner. Lessoned learned. I was in a good spot too I was in the top 5 in the last two corners and charging my legs for a sprint (that I knew I was not going to win) but able to keep in the top 5 or 10 at worst (Out of 40 riders).
Are you ok?
big john is online now  
Likes For big john:
Old 08-03-20, 06:14 PM
  #24  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 39,011

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2243 Post(s)
Liked 932 Times in 486 Posts
Originally Posted by big john View Post
Are you ok?
How's the bike?
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 08-03-20, 06:54 PM
  #25  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,043
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times in 132 Posts
Kevin!
gsteinb is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.