> >
>

242w or 4.5w/kg for 13' , guess my FTP

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

242w or 4.5w/kg for 13' , guess my FTP

01-02-22, 12:52 PM
#1
tireheb
Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
242w or 4.5w/kg for 13' , guess my FTP

so i got my first PM and i need to do a FTP test (but it aint so easy where i live).
on a local climb ive managed to do 242w for 13 minutes, this beeing fresh and giving my all out. i also know this climb very well so i can pace myselft perfectly.

how much would you guys say my FTP should be? i know its just an estimate but im curious as this could help pace me on the real FTP test.
this info could help as doing a FTP test here is hard cause there is no ideal place, so ill need to travel by car or something. hoping to nail it first try.
By the way im a very light rider (54kg) so 242w = 4.48 w/kg

thanks,

PS: does a table of efforts in time vs FTP exist? something like if your FTP is x number then you should be able to push whatever watts at half an hour or for 2 hours, etc?
01-02-22, 02:48 PM
#2
Enthalpic
Killing Rabbits

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,658
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 260 Post(s)
Liked 197 Times in 89 Posts
Use intervals.icu and it will give you a eFTP based on ride power data.

Math > guess
https://intervals.icu/
01-02-22, 04:12 PM
#3
tireheb
Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
[QUOTE=Enthalpic;22359287]Use intervals icu and it will give you a eFTP based on ride power data.

Math > guess
intervals . icu /QUOTE]

hi there, yeah, id go with math over guessing for sure.
thanks for the link, didnt know that site. i registered and uploaded some activities, ton of info and stats on them, i didnt know about the eFTP concept. interesting but im getting really different numbers depending on uploaded ride (well the rides im uploading are really different), i guess this works better with some sort of ramp interval ride or something. anyway, nice method but i would like to get a simpler approach. the same way as a 20min FTP test or an indor FTP test has some adjustment (you subtract a given percentage to simulate the 60 min FTP.

there should be some tool or simple table. like 10 min FTP test then substract x ammount, etc. no one knows about this? and im also open for personal experiences. (yes pretty big guessing here), like if you have a FTP of something, how much of a big effort can you do ona similar time. thanks
01-02-22, 05:42 PM
#4
burnthesheep
Newbie racer

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,304

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Quoted: 1527 Post(s)
Liked 1,472 Times in 920 Posts
What was the original question? Is this so you can guess at how to pace an all our 20min or ftp effort of 45 to 70min? Or is this to do mental math on a guess of all that from what you did already.

Posting the actual numbers was irrelevant, as the method is what matters.

Either way........just go with 20min and 92%. I've not met someone that can do 95%. They exist, but 95% is a very optimistic figure for most folks.

Thing is, with bikes if the effort isn't controlled enough the math can get dodgy. With running, there is SOOOO much data on pace, HR, age, and VO2max with running also not having a sufficiently troublesome aerodynamic component that stuff is charted well enough your Garmin is pretty good. So, most folks with bikes do it indoors or if blessed with a really flat boring 4-corner 25mi TT or a long steady climb that isn't too steep.
01-03-22, 10:11 AM
#5
asgelle
Senior Member

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 4,376
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Quoted: 916 Post(s)
Liked 354 Times in 217 Posts
Originally Posted by tireheb
there should be some tool or simple table. like 10 min FTP test then substract x ammount, etc. no one knows about this?
People know a lot about this and they know such a table can't exist, or at least exist accurately. For long efforts, the anaerobic contribution to average power will be negligible, but as the duration gets shorter, that contribution gets more significant. Since anaerobic capacity doesn't depend on FTP and varies from one person to another, there is no way to separate out the aerobic and anaerobic contributions from a single test. Look up Monod critical power to see how the aerobic and anaerobic capabilities can be estimated from two tests; one short and one long.
Likes For asgelle:
01-03-22, 10:21 AM
#6
tireheb
Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by burnthesheep
What was the original question? Is this so you can guess at how to pace an all our 20min or ftp effort of 45 to 70min? Or is this to do mental math on a guess of all that from what you did already.
yes, youre right i was unclear.
my question: how can one estimate maximum efforts of various durations based on the FTP and viceversa.

example: with a FTP of X watts, someone should be near Y watts for a 5 min maximum effort and z watts for a 10 min max effort, etc.

i am asking so i can pace a 20 all out effort as part of a short FTP test. but also just out of curiosity and general understanding on how to relate efforts to FTP.

Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Posting the actual numbers was irrelevant, as the method is what matters.

Either way........just go with 20min and 92%. I've not met someone that can do 95%. They exist, but 95% is a very optimistic figure for most folks.
yes youre right,numbers were irrelevant. when you say go with 92% for the 20min, what do you mean exactly, 92% of FTP? i have no estimate of the FTP, thats why im asking this. or do you mean 92% of my 13 min max effort?

Last edited by tireheb; 01-03-22 at 11:16 AM.
01-03-22, 10:33 AM
#7
GhostRider62
Senior Member

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,664
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 817 Posts
Very hard to say. My FTP is about 90% of my 13 minute power and 96% of my 20 minute power.

I would guess your FTP to be 211-218 watts. A lot depends on your anaerobic capacity, if it is very high......your FTP is on the lower end....maybe even 205-210 watts. If you are loaded with ST muscles and fit (you are), you could be closer to 220 watts at current fitness
01-03-22, 11:12 AM
#8
burnthesheep
Newbie racer

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,304

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Quoted: 1527 Post(s)
Liked 1,472 Times in 920 Posts
Originally Posted by tireheb
yes, youre right i was unclear.
my question: how can one estimate maximum efforts of various durations based on the FTP and viceversa.

example: with a FTP of X watts, someone should be near Y watts for a 5 min maximum effort and z watts for a 10 min max effort, etc.

i am asking to pace a 20 al out effort as part of a short FTP test. but also just out of curiosity and general understanding on how to relate efforts to FTP.

yes youre right,numbers were irrelevant. when you say go with 92% for the 20min, what do you mean exactly, 92% of FTP? i have no estimate of the FTP, thats why im asking this. or do you mean 92% of my 13 min max effort?

Once you go for 20min, take 92% of that figure for your 45min to 70min "ftp range" power figure. Most quote 60min, but IIRC the physiology actually is more gray-area in that the duration could fall anywhere in that time period depending on the person.

I'm also more of a fan of knowing what you can do for things like 2min or 5min power also. As some people are gifted different ways. A lot of workouts say "do XXX % of ftp", but it's not one size fits all. I tend to do higher % of ftp for longer intervals and lower % of ftp for short intervals than suggested by the workouts. Others may reverse that.

That's why things like 4DP are popular. Profiles the rider.
01-03-22, 11:30 AM
#9
TheKillerPenguin
Nonsense

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,904

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Liked 516 Times in 223 Posts
I am curious - what makes your area so difficult for doing a longer 20min test?

Last edited by TheKillerPenguin; 01-03-22 at 11:47 AM.
01-03-22, 02:57 PM
#10
cmh
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,910
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 327 Times in 161 Posts
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
I am curious - what makes your area so difficult for doing a longer 20min test?
Since this is a guessing thread, I'm going to guess that there are too many stoplights to do a good 20 min test.

To the OP - target 95% of your 13 min power in your 20 min test. If you are feeling good 1/2 way through bump it up, and if you feel good with 5 min to go bump it up again.
01-03-22, 05:10 PM
#11
tireheb
Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
I am curious - what makes your area so difficult for doing a longer 20min test?
im located in santiago, chile, 6 million people city next to the andes mountains with another smaller mountain cord to the other side.
near the city most roads have a stop light or intersection of some sort. the ones that dont usually have climbs (not constant or too much gradient - ie: going twoards the mountains or over some mountain cord), most highways are not really safe and you use their side roads, but these usually have some minor stop here and there or have a bunch of upper passes that mess your rythm a bit (maybe im beeing too cautious here). ive heard most people do it in a 5-6% climb

Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Very hard to say. My FTP is about 90% of my 13 minute power and 96% of my 20 minute power.

I would guess your FTP to be 211-218 watts. A lot depends on your anaerobic capacity, if it is very high......your FTP is on the lower end....maybe even 205-210 watts. If you are loaded with ST muscles and fit (you are), you could be closer to 220 watts at current fitness
thanks, this helps me a lot

Originally Posted by cmh

To the OP - target 95% of your 13 min power in your 20 min test. If you are feeling good 1/2 way through bump it up, and if you feel good with 5 min to go bump it up again.
thanks sir, appreciate it
01-03-22, 08:19 PM
#12
Hermes
Version 3.0

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 12,650

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 296 Post(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)
Liked 1,461 Times in 890 Posts
Welcome to Bike Forums. You may want to expand your introduction and tell us about any racing / event plans.

As far as FTP, I would use 90% and set your FTP at 215 watts. Why not? After you do a structured workout, you can decide if the 215 FTP was correct or needs to be corrected up or down. If 215 was too easy, raise it to 220 watts for the next workout and see how that goes. I have found that FTP on any given day varies depending on many factors.

I use FTP as more of a guide versus a limiter. I never want my brain to think it has limitations. Racing is about doing extraordinary things versus taking tests. However, FTP is great for structuring workouts and keeping track of fatigue and of course managing energy when doing time trials. Good luck.
Likes For Hermes:
01-04-22, 09:03 AM
#13
Yep
no cat contains

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 869
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked 132 Times in 68 Posts
You could also do the 8 minute protocol and take 90% of that for your FTP. The way that one works is that you do two 8 minute max efforts, with plenty of rest in between. You don't average the results, you just use the better of the two. Hermes makes a good point too though. 20 minutes is totally arbitrary, and you could just use 12 minutes. Use 90 or 92% and see how it goes.

If it was me, I'd use that 13 minute climb as your test. Forget about 20 minute or whatever. As Hermes said, start with 92% and make that your "FTP". Then whenever you do an FTP test use that same hill and stick to your 92, 90, or 95 as the percentage for setting your number.

Last edited by Yep; 01-04-22 at 09:53 AM.
01-04-22, 03:19 PM
#14
TheKillerPenguin
Nonsense

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,904

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Liked 516 Times in 223 Posts
Originally Posted by tireheb
im located in santiago, chile, 6 million people city next to the andes mountains with another smaller mountain cord to the other side.
near the city most roads have a stop light or intersection of some sort. the ones that dont usually have climbs (not constant or too much gradient - ie: going twoards the mountains or over some mountain cord), most highways are not really safe and you use their side roads, but these usually have some minor stop here and there or have a bunch of upper passes that mess your rythm a bit (maybe im beeing too cautious here). ive heard most people do it in a 5-6% climb
That makes sense. I defer to the wisdom of Hermes . Better to underestimate than overestimate and adjust as needed.
01-05-22, 10:26 PM
#15
tireheb
Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
hi there! million thanks Hermes,Yep, TheKillerPenguin and all previous posters. i think i got a pretty good starting point with the info you all gave me. you can see this is a nice comunity , glad im here.

btw ive got a couple ideas and doubts regarding my particular situation with bike training , but i think ill do another post somewhere in the near future to see what you guys can suggest, for now i just wanted to thank and declare this issue solved for me, so it doesnt steal more attention in the board, cheers!
Likes For tireheb:
01-13-22, 08:22 AM
#16
msu2001la
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,020
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 950 Post(s)
Liked 918 Times in 531 Posts
Ride the 13 minute route 5x as hard as you can?

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off