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My mini "marathon investigations" story....

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My mini "marathon investigations" story....

Old 01-17-23, 11:34 AM
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My mini "marathon investigations" story....

To start off, I'm not a velominati "gotcha" kind of person. If you want to wear team kit to emulate your heroes on a group ride, so be it. But everywhere has a line you can't cross. Can't remember posting this here, I did in the off topic area on Slowtwitch. That got folks interest! So since BF/33 has been slow......decided to share.

So my work a couple months back put on a very nice event in town to "premier" or show off a documentary about the pro bike team the corporation sponsors. Drinks, snacks, meet the team DS and a "rider", Q&A session. Well done. I have no comment about meeting the DS for like 2 minutes. Decent enough guy but clearly too busy to probably be at the event, and it showed. Whatever, a job I'd never want despite liking bikes.

Now, on to the small beans "marathon investigations" story. I'm at the drink and snack part beforehand and met a person who just really wanted to talk bike stuff. I didn't recognize them so figured they worked at our other site, tons of folks I don't know. Later, come to find out, that was the pro guest.

Anyway, during the Q&A and before they kind of give a little spiel about each person's career or connection to the team. This person goes and is like "won such and such time trial and set a course record". Well, whoa now, got my attention. Then they say something about having taken up running and did really well in a run event, did a 6k in like 23min or something. Eyebrows raised, that's almost under 6:00/mi. For a female.

So, after the event I felt the running one was a bit too much of an eyebrow raiser. Into the 5's min/mi for a foot race might not be noteworthy over on Slowtwitch or Letsrun, but got my attention. I do my 400m intervals at like 5:30 to 5:45. Only for 400m. I had to dig up results. Their full name was tough to put together from what was given at the event, but I figured it out easy enough. Even found the two actual events, the TT and the run.

So, I would have let all this just simply be if in my search the first place results popped up was in the pro team bios and blurbs about people. Same stuff.

Come to find out, they were the ONLY person who entered a "women's classic Merckx" category of a TT. So, they 'won'. The course record was not recognized as a course record, it was the only recorded running by a person in that event with any time. The time, well.......let's just say I ride my gravel bike faster on hilly gravel than they rode a road bike on flatter.

On to that run. Found the run also. First thing that came to mind was "6k". That's an odd run distance. Nothing official in km or miles. Nothing official for "normal" duathlons or triathlons either. Those have sometimes interesting distances for runs, but not 6k. The run was a 5k. The time was not 23min. It was more like 25min. That's middle zone 2 run pace these days. 25min is acceptable for sure, but is nothing to write home about.

So, yeah, they totally faked it and it made me wonder if the team had any idea about either. I'd never mention it, it's years ago. Also, it's kind of pitiful knowing that. But, I'd never imagine faking results. Us category-nobody cyclocross racers and TT folks might say "hey hey, I won out of 50 people!!!". Then qualify it that we're in the middle aged average man category. But, never ever say "I set a course record", but finished DFL otherwise.

So, that's my small beans "marathon investigations" style story.
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Old 01-18-23, 07:37 AM
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You can only beat those who enter. If no one else enters, you are still the winner. It's not their fault no-one entered.

And yes, there are many masters national and world champions who have jerseys and medals and stripes because they were the only entrant. Doesn't matter that no one entered - sometimes showing up is the biggest part of the race.
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Old 01-18-23, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
You can only beat those who enter. If no one else enters, you are still the winner. It's not their fault no-one entered.

And yes, there are many masters national and world champions who have jerseys and medals and stripes because they were the only entrant. Doesn't matter that no one entered - sometimes showing up is the biggest part of the race.
I hadn't considered that, thanks for chiming in.

Thoughts on the claim of a course record, no qualifier about specific category? Is it assumed when you say you got a course record it is "outright" or "category specific". I follow timetrialllinguk forums, and I think they do age group and gender for courses and outright? Any thoughts on the running result that the distance and time were wrong, to a very very fast time error?
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Old 01-21-23, 12:29 PM
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I think it's one thing to say "I won the M55 race at such and such, and I broke the M55 record doing it." It's another thing to say "I set the such and such course record." without any clarification on if it was the overall etc.

Also, to me, knowing a course / time wasn't right... I wouldn't be putting that on a resume.

I protested a race where I was placed the winner but the other guy clearly beat me in the sprint. Problem was that it was so clear, and I was so distraught, I left the race without checking results (there was a 6 week GC battle and I *had* to beat the other guy to stay in contention, so I was out of contention, no GC possible, therefore distraught). The next and final week I went to register, and lo and behold I was still close enough to win GC. I wondered how. Checked results, they had me as the winner the prior week. I found the actual winner, we both went to the officials, and I asked them to reverse the placings. The officials went by the book and said the 15 minute protest period was over, and technically it was. So we duked it out and the other guy won (as he should have). We ended up where we deserved, but when I go back and think about the races I won, that "win" in the second last week is definitely *not* one of them. That was a solid 2nd place race for me.

On the other hand, there's a neighbor that used to live down the street from my brother. She is a really, really strong athlete. She won a local race doing 6 min miles (it seems - 5.85 mi in 25 min): https://www.ctinsider.com/sports/art...op-3769320.php

She's the one that asked my brother how to approach her first crit - she was going to do my race because it was "racer friendly", and really her first group ride / mass start anything. My brother jokingly told her, but in a serious voice, "just break away at the start, lap the field, and then draft until the finish."

So she attacked at the gun, lapped the field in about 8 laps. Then she was so scared of riding behind people that she pulled for the rest of the race. Only when the sprint started did people pass her. A Cat 2 or maybe a 1 said after the race, "She attacked at the start, lapped us, then pulled all the way to the sprint! Who is she?!" She's obviously quite strong, if you google her name. She rode away from some strong women's fields in some big road races as well, but her main thing is triathlons.
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Old 01-29-23, 09:18 PM
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It’s surprising how many people knock time off their PBs, even from unremarkable to unremarkable (“oh yeh, my marathon PB is 3:26 when it’s actually 3:56). I quite enjoy “fact checking” such claims, if only to get a little more insight into the human condition! I don’t do it to be mean, and never mention it to them or others, just gives me a little chuckle.

Agree a 6km event would raise an eyebrow, but a 23 min one doesn’t as such. Quite a few women in my old run club could comfortably achieve such a time and I presume a good cyclist would/could be a good runner?

Couple of the “odder” running distances, that were also hugely popular in Sydney, were the JP Morgan event (worldwide thing) at 5.7km and the City2Surf (city centre to Bondi Beach) which was 14km. Only city in the world in which everybody knows their 14km time!

I enjoyed Marathon Investigation and some of the LetsRun forum posts about cheats. I was able to follow the Marathon Man (Rob Young) implosion one in real-time from the day accusations were first made. Brilliant! I was refreshing my browser multiple times a day.
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Old 02-13-23, 03:59 PM
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How many segment winners on Garmin or Strava only competed against themselves because they created an obscure segment only known to them?

I was proud for about 10 seconds when I was 8th on a segment until I found out there were only 20 recorded individuals on that segment.
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Old 02-13-23, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro
You can only beat those who enter. If no one else enters, you are still the winner. It's not their fault no-one entered.

And yes, there are many masters national and world champions who have jerseys and medals and stripes because they were the only entrant. Doesn't matter that no one entered - sometimes showing up is the biggest part of the race.
We’ve got 2 Florida State championships, and a podium finish at Master’s Nationals by picking our category wisely. As the years pass, the details about just how many people we beat seem less and less important.

90% of life is showing up.
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Old 02-13-23, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR
How many segment winners on Garmin or Strava only competed against themselves because they created an obscure segment only known to them?

I was proud for about 10 seconds when I was 8th on a segment until I found out there were only 20 recorded individuals on that segment.
there’s a short climb out of our development in Asheville, with a 20% plus grade. There’s a gate on one side and it dead ends to a parking lot, so virtually no one rides it that doesn’t live there. So far I’ve resisted the temptation to make it a segment.
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Old 03-07-23, 08:14 PM
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I agree. I don't even think they should have a women's Tour De France. If I entered the TDF with my old, slow butt I would not want them making a special class for old, slow butts so I could say I won or even placed. And that is because my prize would just be actually participating at all in it, even if I finished a week after the next fastest finisher. One of our local TTs has a "single-speed" category, and if I ran my single-speed road bike in it I would ignore it and just enter as I would not want that sort of win, where I had the only single-speed in the race and got a trophy or some mention for it. That would make me barf.........
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Old 03-10-23, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1
I agree. I don't even think they should have a women's Tour De France. If I entered the TDF with my old, slow butt I would not want them making a special class for old, slow butts so I could say I won or even placed.
This is the 21st century, and the women that race professionally on World Tour level teams are talented, dedicated athletes. They deserve more venues to compete not fewer. Comparing them to slow amateurs is a great dis service.
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Old 03-10-23, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
This is the 21st century, and the women that race professionally on World Tour level teams are talented, dedicated athletes. They deserve more venues to compete not fewer. Comparing them to slow amateurs is a great dis service.
You missed the point, and that is if a person needs to "win", then they are just needy and nothing more. I agree with whoever said it is not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. It is making life about winning that is a perversion and psychosis, it is the mindset of predatory capitalism, a state of brainwashing.

All divisions, divisiveness, is destructive, especially when it is someone's mode of existence. You will miss those points too..........
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Old 03-11-23, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by beng1
You missed the point, and that is if a person needs to "win", then they are just needy and nothing more. I agree with whoever said it is not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. It is making life about winning that is a perversion and psychosis, it is the mindset of predatory capitalism, a state of brainwashing.

All divisions, divisiveness, is destructive, especially when it is someone's mode of existence. You will miss those points too..........
You think funny

There ARE differences in ability due to age and sex. And people do like to compete. These innate differences is sort of why 15 year olds should not and cannot compete against a 65 year old or for that matter, women against men. It is called fairness and has nothing to do with capitalism

Why someone would like about a 5 or 6k run or marathon time is beyond me.
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Old 03-11-23, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1
You missed the point, and that is if a person needs to "win", then they are just needy and nothing more. I agree with whoever said it is not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. It is making life about winning that is a perversion and psychosis, it is the mindset of predatory capitalism, a state of brainwashing.

All divisions, divisiveness, is destructive, especially when it is someone's mode of existence. You will miss those points too..........
I am the last person to engage in identity politics, or get worked up about different groups being agreived.

But read what you wrote about the women’s Tour de France, and equating it to fat old male amateurs.

Perhaps it was an in artful illustration of a point, but what you typed is really cringe worthy.

personally, in this cancel culture world, I’d seriously consider deleting it for your own benefit.
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Old 03-11-23, 08:53 PM
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[QUOTE=merlinextraligh;22826587
But read what you wrote about the women’s Tour de France, and equating it to fat old male amateurs.
personally, in this cancel culture world, I’d seriously consider deleting it for your own benefit.[/QUOTE]

I never used the word "fat", and I only talked about myself in deprecating terms. If you can not participate in a debate without putting words into the mouth of your opponent, then you have already lost.
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Old 03-11-23, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by beng1
I never used the word "fat", and I only talked about myself in deprecating terms. If you can not participate in a debate without putting words into the mouth of your opponent, then you have already lost.
Absolutely. I can say my opinion of you has changed 180 degrees now that I understand you only compared old, slow men not old, slow, fat men to women Tour de France racers.
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Old 03-17-23, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by beng1
I agree. I don't even think they should have a women's Tour De France. If I entered the TDF with my old, slow butt I would not want them making a special class for old, slow butts so I could say I won or even placed. And that is because my prize would just be actually participating at all in it, even if I finished a week after the next fastest finisher. One of our local TTs has a "single-speed" category, and if I ran my single-speed road bike in it I would ignore it and just enter as I would not want that sort of win, where I had the only single-speed in the race and got a trophy or some mention for it. That would make me barf.........
I guess it's a good thing there are no masters races for old... wait, nevermind.
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