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Damning news for Lance

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Damning news for Lance

Old 10-06-05, 10:31 AM
  #1  
SchreiberBike
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Damning news for Lance

According to this news story: Yahoo News, a respected doctor in the cycling community, Dr. Prentice Steffen, "has reaffirmed claims that the American outfit used EPO (erythropoietin) to win their first Tour de France in 1999."

Dr. Steffen is no flyweight masseuse/hanger on. Here's his bio from VeloNews where he has been a columnist:


Dr. Prentice Steffen, board certified in both emergency medicine and sports medicine, is serving as team doctor for the Prime Alliance Cycling team. He has served as team doctor for several teams including Mercury, Spago and U.S. Postal. Steffen has also served as medical director and event physician for major races including the Tour Du Pont, New York City Marathon and the Tour de Trump. Steffen also serves as the sports-medicine section editor for the Journal of Emergency Medicine. His services are outlined in detail at www.pdssportsmed.com
I've long been an optimist that Lance was clean, but this makes it harder.
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Old 10-06-05, 10:51 AM
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"But it doesn't work like that. The bad guys, like Armstrong, dope and the good guys, like Hamilton, dope too.

This is a telling statement. I mean, why would he call Armstrong one of the bad guys?
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Old 10-06-05, 10:58 AM
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OK, I had quit following this for a while, so anyone want to explain this quote to me (from the "UCI Launches Independent Investigation..." article)

The story claimed the 34-year-old American icon tested positive six times during that year's race - allegations which Armstrong has vehemently denied but which might be proved or disproved by DNA testing.
What's this DNA test they're talking about? How big of a might are they talking about? Is there a big or small chance it would actually answer questions? Would they be using current samples or old samples? Anyone have a link to more info on that?
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Old 10-06-05, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by waltergodefroot
"But it doesn't work like that. The bad guys, like Armstrong, dope and the good guys, like Hamilton, dope too.

This is a telling statement. I mean, why would he call Armstrong one of the bad guys?
What this tells us is that the good doctor likes Tyler Hamilton and thinks Lance is a jerk. The statement also seems to show a lack of bias because he's willing to point fingers at everyone... not just a person he doesn't like. Blame the professional cycling culture, in other words. Or, 'don't hate the player, hate the game.' Although he apparently doesn't like Lance.

Whaddya think? Whistleblower? Or disgruntled former employee?
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Old 10-06-05, 11:30 AM
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and the crap keeps piling up.
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Old 10-06-05, 12:02 PM
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This story smells a bit fishy to me. First, this doctor was let go by the U.S. Postal team after the 1996 season, before Armstrong even joined the team. So anything he might say about the win in 1999 is pure speculative bullsh*t.

He also claims he was let go because he refused to give EPO to Tyler Hamilton when Hamilton asked for it. Yet he calls Armstrong a bad guy and Hamilton a good guy? Sounds like a disgruntled former employee to me, just piling on.
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Old 10-06-05, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DXchulo
What's this DNA test they're talking about?
I would assume it means that urine contains small amounts of various cells sloughed from the urinary tract, and perhaps some originating elsewhere. If they were preserved in the samples after all these years, they could provide DNA which could then be used for comparisons. If the tainted samples do not have the DNA of Armstrong in them, ...
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Old 10-06-05, 12:07 PM
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How is this even news?

The guy ended his association with USP in 1996. He spoke out in 2001.

The Yahoo piece is poorly written from a technical standpoint.

Nothing new. Same excuse works, disgruntaled ex employee. The excuse (or a variation) almost always works since anyone who dislikes drug usage is almost sure to part with a team using drugs on bad terms.
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Old 10-06-05, 12:28 PM
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Regardless of what the real story is, this story isn't about LA, Drug use, or even doping in sports.

It is a thinly veiled attempt by the european cycling community to spin more interest in road cycling issues during the coming off season so that can have more interest and intrigue going into next season. That they are doing this at the expense of L.A. and Americans is typical and pathetic.

What's worse is they now they will get a knee jerk reaction from Americans (and LA) which will further enflame the issue and get more coverage.

I mean this stuff was on primetime news in the states and Canada. Cycling is usually a "who cares sport" reported on the last page of the sports section besides lawn bowling with only finishing times and names.

This is the International (european) Cycling machine's attempt to garner more interest and to do so by proving that everyone is right to hate americans "good" ones and "bad" ones. I mean, I'm not American. I've been to Europe. Of course I hate Americans, why woudn't I? PULEASE! This is infantile.

It is a facile news article and journalists are eating up the crap that the spin doctors are putting on their plates.

Did LA cheat? He and those close to him only know. Now is not the time to start fixing the "wrongs" of past athletics - iif there are in this case. Are Superbowl rings going to be taken back, Are World Cup trophies going to be withdrawn? Even the IOC taking back of Medals has a statute of limitations.

Move on gentlemen and ladies, who cares what some seven year old pee smells like!
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Old 10-06-05, 12:37 PM
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- thank you, wind 'n snow for one of the more lucid posts i've read about this issue...

+1
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Old 10-06-05, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Wind 'N Snow
Regardless of what the real story is, this story isn't about LA, Drug use, or even doping in sports.

It is a thinly veiled attempt by the european cycling community to spin more interest in road cycling issues during the coming off season so that can have more interest and intrigue going into next season. That they are doing this at the expense of L.A. and Americans is typical and pathetic.

What's worse is they now they will get a knee jerk reaction from Americans (and LA) which will further enflame the issue and get more coverage.

I mean this stuff was on primetime news in the states and Canada. Cycling is usually a "who cares sport" reported on the last page of the sports section besides lawn bowling with only finishing times and names.

This is the International (european) Cycling machine's attempt to garner more interest and to do so by proving that everyone is right to hate americans "good" ones and "bad" ones. I mean, I'm not American. I've been to Europe. Of course I hate Americans, why woudn't I? PULEASE! This is infantile.

It is a facile news article and journalists are eating up the crap that the spin doctors are putting on their plates.

Did LA cheat? He and those close to him only know. Now is not the time to start fixing the "wrongs" of past athletics - iif there are in this case. Are Superbowl rings going to be taken back, Are World Cup trophies going to be withdrawn? Even the IOC taking back of Medals has a statute of limitations.

Move on gentlemen and ladies, who cares what some seven year old pee smells like!
Wow...nicely stated!!
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Old 10-06-05, 12:54 PM
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LetmeseeifIgotthisstraight....

A former doctor/employee who was no longer employed by USPS Pro Cycling after or about 1996 is making irrefutable (in his mind) allegations of events that occurred without his presence, THREE YEARS AFTER HE LEFT THEIR EMPLOYMENT. For whatever reason.

Huh?
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Old 10-06-05, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Wind 'N Snow
...who cares what some seven year old pee smells like!
A caniche.
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Old 10-06-05, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by waltergodefroot
A caniche.
Now that is news I can believe!
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Old 10-06-05, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by linux_author
- thank you, wind 'n snow for one of the more lucid posts i've read about this issue...

+1
Thanks Linux and FX. Let's see how far this gets. I fear it will get ugly.
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Old 10-06-05, 02:36 PM
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Yes, whole teams were taking EPO throughout the 90's.
At least it is only individuals now.
That's a step in the right direction.

There are no ProTour teams taking anything illegal en masse at this point.
It used to be everyone just shut up and let the team fix 'em up.
Now, each rider figures out with his own personal doctor what to take and when.

Blood boosters, steroids, uppers, these things will never go away, but at least it's in the open and makes the younger ones think twice.

My wife is up seeing Lance this weekend in DC. She and the millions of others who love Lance's story could care less about any EPO use he or his team or any of his competitors took in 1999. His life is a miracle and his fighting spirit has shown others that there is life after disease.

Last point - yes, Mark McGuire should come clean and so should Lance. The general public is very forgiving to its heroes. Sadly, I doubt it will happen and scores of kids will follow the same paths.
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Old 10-06-05, 02:44 PM
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Wind/Snow I'd tend to agree with you but the Euro's are busting their own as well as LA. I have no doubt that the French papers would love nothing more than to find LA to be a cheat but for all the supposed America bashing going on the guilt goes both ways. Americans bash the French as much or more than the reverse.

As for the legitimacy of the charges against LA I find that the test is what is becoming the bigger issue. With several positive results now being overturned I think that WADA and the UCI are going to have to re-address the test issue of the test being a valid one.

I for one believe that all of the "front" runners are on some sort of performance enhancing drug. I believe that these guys can ride at the level they are riding on day one in Alps and perhaps day two but to put an effort in on days three four and five that is equal to or better than day one is a bit hard to believe. This is of course where the spectical takes over from the sport. We all want to see these guys ride like superman everyday not just on some days. If they looked human we would be less inclined to be glued to the tv and websites to follow them over the tops of these cols. Cyclist have been doping since the first tour and they will be doping in the next one too. I don't really care I just wish they would be honest about it.
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Old 10-06-05, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Rodies
Wind/Snow I'd tend to agree with you but the Euro's are busting their own as well as LA.
You are right. I am guilty of doing what I accused others of. Generalizing.
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Old 10-06-05, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Wind 'N Snow
You are right. I am guilty of doing what I accused others of. Generalizing.
It's okay. Everybody generalizes... all the time.
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Old 10-06-05, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rjkresse
It's okay. Everybody generalizes... all the time.
It's an over simplification that people generalize all the time when in fact people generally generalize most of the time...generally speaking of course.
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Old 10-06-05, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 2Rodies
I for one believe that all of the "front" runners are on some sort of performance enhancing drug. I believe that these guys can ride at the level they are riding on day one in Alps and perhaps day two but to put an effort in on days three four and five that is equal to or better than day one is a bit hard to believe. This is of course where the spectical takes over from the sport. We all want to see these guys ride like superman everyday not just on some days. If they looked human we would be less inclined to be glued to the tv and websites to follow them over the tops of these cols. Cyclist have been doping since the first tour and they will be doping in the next one too. I don't really care I just wish they would be honest about it.
2Rodies, would you say that Kenyan runners are doping? The reason I ask is that they are consistently near the front in Olympic distance events and marathons. Yet everyone accepts that because in their culture, they run everywhere. So why is it hard to accept that, if a professional rider spends 5 or 6 hours on a bike every day during training, that they can do the same during the TdF without doping?
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Old 10-06-05, 03:47 PM
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I genuflect in your general direction 2Roadies (both of you) and rjk. Excuse me as I defenestrate....
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Old 10-06-05, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Wind 'N Snow
I genuflect in your general direction 2Roadies (both of you) and rjk. Excuse me as I defenestrate....
Only defenestrate from the first floor, please.
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Old 10-06-05, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rjkresse
Only defenestrate from the first floor, please.
What would be the fun of that? Besides I have some nice bushy shrubs to land on. Were we not talking about serious stuff? LA growing up to sing back up to Sheryl? I hear there's a lotta drugs in Rock and Roll.

I read in Billboard that all Grammy winners will be tested for substance abuse next year and that there will be random testing at the Oscars and Emmy's.

Not at Cannes, though, nobody cares.
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Old 10-06-05, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith99
How is this even news?

The guy ended his association with USP in 1996. He spoke out in 2001.
Because L'Equipe has a vendetta. Period.
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