flyefisher

How much is a Trek OCLV frame? I am trying to come up with a list of frames to test ride. I am going to buy a frame and then the parts most likely, in this case definitely since I like campy. Trek does not list raw frame prices...

kewlrunningz

The OVLV 120 frame goes for about 1250 or so. Somewhere around there. The OCLV 110 is significantly more, something in the 2 grand range. It is a good thing that you are test riding them first to make sure the frame fits you and that you find the ride suitibale for your needs.

flyefisher

Thanks for that. I'm trying to eliminate certain frames right off the bat based on price. I initially fell in love with Colnago, but am a bit irked by the meager warranty on most italian bikes. If I'm going to spend upwards of $1500 on a frame, I'd like to be sure it has a lifetime warranty! But CAAD5s also only go for about $900 or so the dealer says. At any rate, once I have a list of frames that fit my budget, I'll start riding them.

Xavier

No one offers a lifetime warranty. If they claim to offer one, please read it. It is the life expectancy of that frame. Normally 1-5 years. Not to mention agains manufacturers defect. On and on and on.

Bottom line is everyone pretty much offers the same warranty. Just make sure you buy from an authorized source. A few mail order sites in the USA do not offer authorized frames and you should be aware of this. A litle lower price tends to fool buyers.

Also frames bought outside the USA will carry no warranty that will be honoured by US distributors. So beware on that end as well.

dragracer

Uhhhmmmmmmm........ Litespeed does ....at least on their Ti frames.

Xavier

So basicly if I buy a Litespeed and say 20 years from now it breaks, Litespeed will send me a 2023 model?

Xavier

Here is the trick wording Litespeed uses as well as most companies

- The above warranty applies to Litespeed titanium frames for the lifetime of the bicycle, redeemable only by the original owner.

Lifetime of the bicycle. For many companies this may mean 1-5 years. Basicly the life expectancy of the material. Steel usually getting the longer term.

Best to contact Litespeed for exact definition of this policy.

It is trick wording many companies are now trying to not print as it always caused confusion.

I really doubt that say 10-20 years from now and Litespeed is the same (hasn't been sold to another firm thus voiding all warranties) they will issue original buyer and new 2020+ frame. I am sure there will be limitations and/or extra fees as some manufacturers apply.

I am not against Litespeed in any way. I simply speak as a shop owner that deals with these issues daily. Manufactures do not really deal with customers, shops do and we suffer from such wording as we are the ones dealing with usually angry customers that do not care whom they insult. Companies simply hide behind buildings and phones. Shops do not make these bikes bikes simply offer themselves as aids in the warranty process.

I am glad to see a few companies make their wording more exact.

I am a victim of this as I own 2 frames (wil not mention brands) that were claim to cover lifetime warranty when this term was used in the industry. Problem is I know they are manufactures defects on both. They will not cover as warranty is no longer valid. Why? Because the life warranty of the frame was over years ago (about 3 years for both).

Ajay213

Litespeed's warranty says the lifetime of the bicycle. If they say a lifetime warranty then that's what they have to mean. Almost every state has laws protecting consumers from these types of warranties and the court will side with the consumer in a case where litespeed would deny warranty on an obvious defect in the frame after 1-5 years. If you were denied warranty claims, then you do have legal rights....granted the cost of pursuing something like that will probably cost more than what the frame is worth...but you still have the right.

Trek's lifetime warranty is much more clear;

Trek Bicycle Corporation provides each original retail purchaser of the bicycle a lifetime warranty against defects in materials and workmanship in the bicycle frame and rigid fork when purchased from an authorized Trek dealer. The warranty on the Diesel DH frameset is limited to one year. Trek Bicycle Corporation likewise warrants all original parts on the bicycle, excluding suspension forks and rear shock absorbers, for a period of one year from the date of purchase. Suspension forks and rear shock absorbers shall be covered by the stated warranty of their original manufacturers. Paint and decals are warranted for one year. This warranty is expressly limited to the repair or replacement of a defective frame, fork, or defective part and is the sole remedy of the warranty. This warranty applies only to the original owner and is not transferable. Claims under this warranty must be made through an authorized Trek dealer. Proof of purchase is required.

They give a warranty for one year on the components of the bike, the paint and decals, etc, and lifetime on the frame (except for one model).

Andrew

Xavier

You are right.

Howerver we go back to square one with Trek.

They also claim lifetime warranty. What exactly is this. Obviously is not my lifetime but the lifetime of the frame.

What is the lifetime (time wise) of the frame? I want to see it terms of years. Is it 1, 5 10 or 100 years?

This is what I want companies to make clear. It sounds very tempting to buyers. However when problems arise dealer are the ones with the angry customer across the counter, not Trek or Litespeed.

I just wish companies would make it very clear on what you are getting.

Xavier

Here I go again!

Here is a case. A few weeks ago a friend of mine whom owns a shop had such a problem.

Seems a customer had a problem with a frame. Policies state lifetime warranty so customer figured it would be OK. Well to my eyes and his it is a factory defect. Sadly we informed him of ths and he assumed he would get a new frame. Well turns out the representative for that company denied hs claim on the spot. Well as many guessed the customer go tvery angry and got pretty loud in the store. Not only did my friend loose this customer but also made a nice nasty scene in his store in front of other buyers.

Turns out the frame was under warranty for about 3 years. I guess lifetime meant 3 years or less.

Not to mention all those guys I know that have GTs with warrnaties that are no longer honoured.

* By the way this is a brand many see all the time ( Il will not mention names so I avoid getting those nasty calls from the companies) I learned my lesson years back.

Ajay213

Gotta love the lawyers....the most I could find on it about a definition of "lifetime" for a product would be the "typical" lifetime of a product. So if the average Carbon or Ti frame lasts 10 years, your's has a defect in 2 years, you probably have a case....but good luck proving it all....

And of course there isn't much case-law on the books about it, so it's hard to find out what has happened in the past.

In the case of your customer, I would bet if he complained loudly to the company (assuming it's a fairly well respected company) or maybe even got one of his lawyer friends to write a letter, things would turn around pretty quick. Because 3 years is pretty damn short regardless of what the frame is made out of. The worst part is that even though your customer is in the right here, it wouldn't be worth pursuing the warranty claim between the time and money it would take to pursue a legal route.

I know of a guy who sued a car dealership over something stolen from his car, it was just a small claims type thing, something like $1000 in damages....he spent probably a good 80+ hours at a minimum to go through the process of suing the dealership, that included lots of regular weekdays, etc....he won in the end, and he's lucky enough that he didn't have a "normal" schedule so he could do this....but for most of us it would be a hassle.

Andrew

Ajay213

https://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm

There are some other papers at FTC, but nothing that really clarifies it all.

Andrew

Xavier

You are right. I am one that hates lawyers.

Why? Many are quick to threaten and cause people to scare and ends up causing that harm and maybe even financial loss in fighting many stupid claims.

With that said, one fact all buyers overlook is warranties are at the discretion of the manufacturer. Sadly whom always looses is th eshop. Why you ask? Because people tend to be stupid and blame the shop for this loss.

Not to mention that it may cause the shop to loose dealership if a customer takes it to that extreme. Either way the shop looses.

That is exactly why I am so active lately with this post. Because I want companies to be more clear on what they are giving consumers. What they are giving people are false thinking. They will more quickly purchase a frame that claims to have a 'lifetime' warranty over one that clearly states its terms in years.

I have many complaints with the industry and this is one of the smaller ones.

Only if customers knew the lenghts I go along with a few other shop owners in the USA to make it better for customers.

Sadly many customers fall for flase claims and catchy wording.

But by all means keep the lawyers out. Why, because what we will see in the end is higher prices and more limitations.

pokey

This is just cr...,uh,er, I mean applesauc. As you note in successive posts, one may be able to dig up indivudal cases that support this and your idea of your interpetaion of languabe,but you are not a lawyer and the Idea that noone offes a real lifetime warranty is just hooey. Admittedly some companies may be better than others,but you seem to have a particular hard one for Litespeed.One hears of cases all the tieme of long term original owners collecting on them

Ajay213

Well it's all a balance, manufactures have to balance out what is best for them (or else they go out of business), and what is best for the consumer (or else they go somewhere else and you go out of business).

The only thing here is the manufactures who have made a fairly ambiguous warranty which is open to much interpretation. But then again, they almost have to do that as well. A lot of people won't buy a <select your own special setup here) bike unless it has a "lifetime" warranty. Even if the "lifetime" is 3 years. So if you offered a 3-yr warranty on the bike, people would call it cheap and nobody would buy it (and even reading these forums, I've seen that issue raised a number of times). Almost a no-win situation for the manufacture.

And in this case I can't even blame the lawyers, as mentioned above it's more a business decision than a legal decision. Or if you wanted to really define "lifetime" in the courts, that takes time (which isn't so much the lawyers fault), it's just the way it is. But I'm with ya, if you took all the legal fee's associated with any product you buy things would get a little bit cheaper.

As to shops, it sucks being the middle man....if more consumers would stop and think about it, they would go a lot farther to solving their problems. I've seen a couple of shops (not just bike shops) where, after taking ridiculous amounts of abuse, they would simply turn their back (rightfully so, they didn't have to offer the help they offering) on the problem and tell the customer to take a hike. In those kinds of situations it's better to get the dealer and the distributor (assuming there is a non-manufacturing related distributor) on your good side and then all of you put the screws to the manufacture, the results are usually positive.

Andrew

Ajay213

That might be true, but language in the warranty itself gives the manufacture the most options (at least with Trek and Litespeed...haven't looked at the others). They don't have to do anything after a reasonable amount of time (which isn't defined).

Andrew

pokey

Read the fine print in the Cdale warrenty .If it is lifetime it may not cover 'fatigue'. $900 is too much for a caad5 in my O. That may be full MSRP and I think one could be had for no more than $600 on there frame trade deal they typically run every spring.All you need for the trade is a dumpster frame and some dealers don't even require that, as they go in the dumpster anyway.

pokey

And some companies put in...'" warrants to the original owner for the lifetime of the ORIGINAL OWNER of each new steel..." some are better and oters and it pays to read.Actually I could not care less.

Ajay213

So far all the warranties I've seen have all said they warranty for the lifetime of the frame.....only for the original owner. They worded it to make it as confusing as possible so people assume they are getting a warranty that lasts forever, when in fact they aren't.

Andrew

flyefisher

I've bought 5 flyrods that have 'lifetime unconditional' warranties and had no problems returning broken flyrods for replacements. These guys don't ask any questions. I was thinking that the bike manufacturers might follow the same ethic.

Has anyone ever put in a claim for a frame after several years against one of these 'lifetime' warranties? Lifetime means lifetime of the customer at the very least. I think examples of Trek/Cannondale customers would be useful in this case.

pgreene

to try to answer the post, check out trek's site now. www.trekbikes.com

you can get the 5000 series bikes frame only now. think the 5900 (oclv 110) was around $2300?

jmlee

Regardless of how "lifetime" is interpreted and regardless of how it is written up in the law, if a company representative says to a customer (via the shop owner) that the company will not accept the defect under the warranty, then the customer has no choice but to go to court with it.

I can see it now, you and your lawyer dig up all the bike shop owners in your home town--a set of guys who collectively have seen 100s of defective frames, etc. Then Big Bike Company comes with its lawyers (note the plural) and a few expert witnesses with engineering degrees in materials science, etc. Could go either way. Is the judge a Robin Hood or does he get teed off watching such money wasted over a $1000 bicycle frame?

And most people are sensible enough to realized that the cost and trouble of a lawsuit is just not worth it.

This is what the companies are banking on. It is a calculated risk that is built right into their balance sheets.

In Germany, a huge class of products (which includes electronics and household appliances, but I am not sure about bicycles) are automatically covered by a 2 year warranty (used to be just 1 year). By law, the company has to repair or replace a defect under 2 years. That guarantees a certain level of coverage and product quality.

One solution to the lifetime question is to buy from a company that states their warranty in years. That way you know they are not trying to feed you any of Pokey's applesauce.

Cheers,
Jamie

Maurizio

None of this "lifetime warranty" crap matters as long as your frame breaks relatively quickly.

I had a Trek Alunimum mountain bike a few years ago, that I rode a lot, and real hard. It develloped a crack in the chainstay in one season.

Trek was very nice and gave me a brand new frame, even though it seemed obvious that it wasn't a manufacturing defect.

If you're eneamored with the OCLV, then I'd say it's a good pick for a guy who's thinking of keeping it for as long as possible. I don't see many guys who I race against with Aluminum frames that are more than two years old, but I frequently see OCLV bikes that are 5 or more years old and still being raced hard. I've never ridden one, but they seem reliable.

- Maurizio