Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Riis - Poor loser? (spoiler-ish)

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Riis - Poor loser? (spoiler-ish)

Old 05-20-06, 10:36 AM
  #26  
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Posts: 11,058

Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
yeah, agree...I guess we'll be treated to Jan crushing souls next week when the real race starts...

The crushing has begun, Stage 13...souls were crushed allright.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 12:51 AM
  #27  
ScandiHo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No true cycling aficionado can be a fan of Jan Ullrich.
ScandiHo is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 03:03 AM
  #28  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,374
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 20 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by jbhowat
Its likely that Riis wouldn't have won his TdF without Jan Ullrich at his side, and its also even more likely that Ullrich could have beat him if he were allowed to in 96.
you've got that bass ackwards, this is what you SHOULD have typed if you knew your facts:

Its likely that Jan Ullrich wouldn't have won his TdF without Riis at his side.
botto is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 05:34 AM
  #29  
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
The crushing has begun, Stage 13...souls were crushed allright.
Boy is that the truth....this is looking like the butt kickings that Armstrong used to lay on during his Tour heyday...and yesterday was only one real climb...I shudder to think what will happen next week.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 12:06 PM
  #30  
lotek 
Senior Member
 
lotek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: n.w. superdrome
Posts: 17,688

Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
yah you're right,Bjarne should have said:
"yah, my guy Basso sucked today. Der Jan is a better rider and should be
in the maglia rosa, and BTW he (der jan) is gonna win the Tour and crush souls
all over France"

what do you expect? who does Bjarne work for, CSC or T-Mobile.

and yes it's all Psy-Ops.

marty
__________________
Sono pi lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.


Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
lotek is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 12:31 PM
  #31  
Enthalpic
Killing Rabbits
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,606
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked 162 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by ScandiHo
No true cycling aficionado can be a fan of Jan Ullrich.
Give the guy some respect. Like him or not he is a great cyclist. What the hell did he do so wrong? Consistent tour podium finishes... what a hack. Whats more funny is a bunch of Internet bike geeks think they know some secret that would make him win more.

-- This website brought to you by team CSC --
Enthalpic is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 03:08 PM
  #32  
DocRay
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Originally Posted by Enthalpic
Give the guy some respect. Like him or not he is a great cyclist. What the hell did he do so wrong? Consistent tour podium finishes... what a hack. Whats more funny is a bunch of Internet bike geeks think they know some secret that would make him win more.

-- This website brought to you by team CSC --
Well...to start, he gets one on the largest salaries , despite not watching his weight. He's a convicted drunk driver. There are lots of riders with far less, working a lot more.
..and he's losing minutes/stage at the Giro, but he's just training...to get dropped at the Tour.
 
Old 05-21-06, 03:24 PM
  #33  
Jakey
Feed me your soul!
 
Jakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 3,018

Bikes: Torelli 20th Anniversary, Trek 2000, Kona NuNu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
From cyclingews...

Wst sees Ullrich as Tour favourite

Former pro sprinter Marcel Wst now sees Jan Ullrich as the Tour favourite, after his victory in the Giro d'Italia time trial. "If you figure his time advantage over Basso in this time trial to the time trial in the Tour de France in six weeks, then it could be two or three minutes that he wins over Basso. And this Tour is one for the time trialist," he told www.sport1.de.

He also joined the list of people asking if Ullrich had simply been bluffing this spring. "Who knows - maybe there weren't any serious knee problems. But Jan Ullrich is a good example that you don't necessarily have to ride a lot of races to get in shape. Hard training is sometimes more effective."

Wst also doesn't see any problems for Ullrich in the upcoming Giro mountain stages. "Even if he gives up half an hour, that doesn't mean anything. You never know how intensively he is riding. But if he should manage to win a stage, he would definitely be sending a signal!"
Jakey is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 03:55 PM
  #34  
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Posts: 11,058

Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
From OLN during todays coverage:
Ligget, Sherwin, Roll all say Basso is the favorite for the tour. Armstrong says Basso's the favorite for the tour. I say Basso is the favorite for the tour. What do all these experts know? Nothing. But we will all find out in July. I hope Ulrich, Basso, Landis, Vino, Valverde, Levi all come into the tour in there best ever form and the Tour is nail bitting down the wire finish.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 05:00 PM
  #35  
Jakey
Feed me your soul!
 
Jakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 3,018

Bikes: Torelli 20th Anniversary, Trek 2000, Kona NuNu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Basso probably is the favorite..and chances are he will be hard to beat. But a big part of me hopes that Jan has been playing possum all spring, and just rides away with it. Puts an exclamation point on it, and bows out into retirement wearing yellow in paris.

I'd like to see him try to go hard in one of these mountain stages... if he can beat Basso, or stay on his wheel, when basso is going hard one has to give Jan a serious look for the tour. If he can win the TT's and stay with the leaders in the mountains...thats all he really has to do.
Jakey is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 05:28 PM
  #36  
daytonian
elitist jerk
 
daytonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Blow - hio
Posts: 4,187

Bikes: CAAD9

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DocRay
Well...to start, he gets one on the largest salaries , despite not watching his weight. He's a convicted drunk driver. There are lots of riders with far less, working a lot more.
..and he's losing minutes/stage at the Giro, but he's just training...to get dropped at the Tour.
But Ullie is not the one with the nickname "Mr 60 percent".
Drinking a bit too much CSC koolaid with chasers of EPO.
daytonian is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 06:21 PM
  #37  
domestique
Shut Up and Ride
 
domestique's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PA (Worst roads in existence)
Posts: 1,969

Bikes: 05 Cannondale Six 13 (Record 2008 with DT rr 1.1 rims, WI H2 Hubs and CX-ray spokes), OLMO Antares (Micx of 06 Record and Chorus), 1988 Tunturri, 1980's Fuji, 1970's Crescent (Sweeden)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DocRay
Well...to start, he gets one on the largest salaries , despite not watching his weight. He's a convicted drunk driver. There are lots of riders with far less, working a lot more.
..and he's losing minutes/stage at the Giro, but he's just training...to get dropped at the Tour.

Don't forget the esctasy use. Ulrich likes the Raves almost as much as the strudel
domestique is offline  
Old 05-21-06, 08:13 PM
  #38  
waltergodefroot
Retired Pro Rider/DS
 
waltergodefroot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: second guessing Olaf and Rudy
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by domestique
...Ulrich likes...the strudel
Jan has also been known to crush souls by sitting on them.
waltergodefroot is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 03:15 AM
  #39  
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Enthalpic
-- This website brought to you by team CSC --
actually, it's Discovery Channel Cycling...

roadwarrior is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 03:24 AM
  #40  
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Jakey
Basso probably is the favorite..and chances are he will be hard to beat. But a big part of me hopes that Jan has been playing possum all spring, and just rides away with it. Puts an exclamation point on it, and bows out into retirement wearing yellow in paris.

I'd like to see him try to go hard in one of these mountain stages... if he can beat Basso, or stay on his wheel, when basso is going hard one has to give Jan a serious look for the tour. If he can win the TT's and stay with the leaders in the mountains...thats all he really has to do.

He cannot beat Basso, any more than he could beat Armstrong.

He's a great rider, but he refuses to change. He cannot mash on climbs, when guys like Armstrong (did) and Basso (will) ride away from him at high tempo. How do we know? It's been proven over and over in July...and I'd give him the time trial, but Basso's improved so much there in the past year, even that's close. He won't beat Basso in flat stages...so that leaves climbing.

Ullrich's a great rider...but he's chosen to surround himself with less than stellar support staff. They make tactical errors (attacking Armstrong at inopportune times, and then the stellar bluff in '01)...other riders have learned how to ride better. Jan keeps on grinding.

Now...all that being said, Basso's given a pretty big effort so far with the tough stuff to come. We'll see that he has left for the TdF.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 01:17 PM
  #41  
jkoman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Paso Robles Ca.
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DocRay
Well...to start, he gets one on the largest salaries , despite not watching his weight. He's a convicted drunk driver. There are lots of riders with far less, working a lot more.
..and he's losing minutes/stage at the Giro, but he's just training...to get dropped at the Tour.
Let me tell a story for comparison

Years ago there were 2 doctors working on cancer research, Dr. Ray (DR) and Dr. Armstrong (DA). Although they were trained in East Germany and USA respectively, they were the leaders in their research. Let me assure you they were paid and funded accordingly. DR was sent away from family early and DA raised in a broken family....this effected both dramatically in many ways.

After many years of training and research the business changed....doctors would now be compared to others to secure funding and be paid accordingly.

2000 DA saved 1.9 mil. lives...DR only 1.7
2001 DA saved 2.1 mil...DR only 1.9
2002 DA saved 2.8 mil. DR a measley 2.7 mil.

In 2003 a writer for the trashy German paper...Der "warped" Opinion, named Scandelous Ho, got an interview with the world renowned DR....some parts of that interview follow...

Der Ho asks...Why are you routinely outperformed by DA?
DR...Well he is a phenominal Dr.

Why do you not work harder??
I continue to strive to be the best I know how to be...I am saving lives

But you could do better...look at what you're paid...commented Der Ho
Perhaps we could all be better...from DR

DR decided to ask a few....Who is the highest paid at your paper? Ho? Why I am said Der Ho

And what awards have you recieved, Ho? I got best creative writing in 12th grade said Der Ho

Didn't your fellow writer get a Pulitzer, Ho? Well yes that was our tech writer...I do the trashy stuff.

And you choose to criticize me? said DR....after all the lives I saved??? I don't get it?

At this point Der Ho looked at his glass of wine at the table.....could you order another bottle? asked Der Ho

But yours is still 1/2 full said DR

Der Ho got angry and said..." It's not 1/2 full it's 1/2 empty!"

Dr. Ray got up and said ...." Now I get it "
jkoman is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 01:26 PM
  #42  
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Posts: 11,058

Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by jkoman
Let me tell a story for comparison

Years ago there were 2 doctors working on cancer research, Dr. Ray (DR) and Dr. Armstrong (DA). Although they were trained in East Germany and USA respectively, they were the leaders in their research. Let me assure you they were paid and funded accordingly. DR was sent away from family early and DA raised in a broken family....this effected both dramatically in many ways.

After many years of training and research the business changed....doctors would now be compared to others to secure funding and be paid accordingly.

2000 DA saved 1.9 mil. lives...DR only 1.7
2001 DA saved 2.1 mil...DR only 1.9
2002 DA saved 2.8 mil. DR a measley 2.7 mil.

In 2003 a writer for the trashy German paper...Der "warped" Opinion, named Scandelous Ho, got an interview with the world renowned DR....some parts of that interview follow...

Der Ho asks...Why are you routinely outperformed by DA?
DR...Well he is a phenominal Dr.

Why do you not work harder??
I continue to strive to be the best I know how to be...I am saving lives

But you could do better...look at what you're paid...commented Der Ho
Perhaps we could all be better...from DR

DR decided to ask a few....Who is the highest paid at your paper? Ho? Why I am said Der Ho

And what awards have you recieved, Ho? I got best creative writing in 12th grade said Der Ho

Didn't your fellow writer get a Pulitzer, Ho? Well yes that was our tech writer...I do the trashy stuff.

And you choose to criticize me? said DR....after all the lives I saved??? I don't get it?

At this point Der Ho looked at his glass of wine at the table.....could you order another bottle? asked Der Ho

But yours is still 1/2 full said DR

Der Ho got angry and said..." It's not 1/2 full it's 1/2 empty!"

Dr. Ray got up and said ...." Now I get it "
If Dr Ray showe up to work drunk (read overweight and undertrained) for the biggest operation of his carreer and that was the reason he wasn't saving as many lives as Dr Armstrong would you still support him as strongly?
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 02:24 PM
  #43  
harlond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 425

Bikes: Torelli Titanio; Serotta Atlanta Concept; Specialized Rockhopper, Raleigh Twenty, Velo Orange Polyvalent

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
If Dr Ray showe up to work drunk (read overweight and undertrained) for the biggest operation of his carreer and that was the reason he wasn't saving as many lives as Dr Armstrong would you still support him as strongly?
I have lot of difficulty with the view that the Jan-haters espouse. There is simply no way to achieve even one podium placing in the world's toughest bike race without having trained extraordinarily hard and without having sacrificed a great deal. Given his palmares, there is no reasonable basis for concluding that Jan doesn't do just that, but the fact that his detractors think his alleged failure to work even harder than extraordinarily hard is comparable to showing up to work drunk demonstrates how unattainably high are the standards Jan is expected to meet.

Every year, a dozen or more GC riders set their sights on the TdF, and every year, most of them are proved to be incapable of contending. Are those the guys we jump on for undertraining or lack of preparation? No, it's Ullrich, the guy who has never shown up at the TdF without being capable of contending. That doesn't make good sense to me, and no amount of speculation about how much more Ullrich could have done will make that make sense to me.
harlond is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 02:30 PM
  #44  
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Posts: 11,058

Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by harlond
I have lot of difficulty with the view that the Jan-haters espouse. There is simply no way to achieve even one podium placing in the world's toughest bike race without having trained extraordinarily hard and without having sacrificed a great deal. Given his palmares, there is no reasonable basis for concluding that Jan doesn't do just that, but the fact that his detractors think his alleged failure to work even harder than extraordinarily hard is comparable to showing up to work drunk demonstrates how unattainably high are the standards Jan is expected to meet.

Every year, a dozen or more GC riders set their sights on the TdF, and every year, most of them are proved to be incapable of contending. Are those the guys we jump on for undertraining or lack of preparation? No, it's Ullrich, the guy who has never shown up at the TdF without being capable of contending. That doesn't make good sense to me, and no amount of speculation about how much more Ullrich could have done will make that make sense to me.
First I'm not a Jan hater. Second even his ex-DS said that if Jan had the dedication and preparation of Lance he'd have won 10 Tours. I would say that his DS has a much better insight than any of us to what Jan does and doesn't do to prepare for the only race he's really paid to win.

My post from above was in response to a very poorly thought out analogy between Lance and Jan. Aside from 2003 Jan has come into the Tour at above his ideal weight, while his main rival was at his best. This isn't something of myth or speculation.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 03:07 PM
  #45  
DocRay
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Originally Posted by jkoman
Let me tell a story for comparison

....

Dr. Ray got up and said ...." Now I get it "
I read it. I read it again.



I really doubt Ullrich will make it to the top of Plan de Corones.
 
Old 05-22-06, 05:48 PM
  #46  
jkoman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Paso Robles Ca.
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DocRay
I read it. I read it again.



I really doubt Ullrich will make it to the top of Plan de Corones.
If he doesn't make the top it will be because he chose not to. I remain convinced he will show up at the TDF well prepared. I would say that no other rider showed up at the TDF as well prepared as LA nor team. Some of them may have actually out-performed LA based on their abiliities vs performance...some underperformed...all are studs.I still believe that # 2,3,or 4 in the world is deserving of high praise rather than disdain, but some only see 1/2 empty when they fully understand the variables. Others choose to see it that way even when they have no concrete/direct evidence to support.

My other premise still holds true....at what level do the nay-sayers perform in their chosen profession...answer that question...do they view themselves with the same disdain and disrespect they espouse to others? If they do I feel sorry for them...if they don't, I feel sorry for them....and hold them in disdain.

Why when LA rode for training in the early season was it smart and well planned, when Jan adopts it ....." I really doubt Ullrich will make it to the top of Plan de Corones???

Sorry to go so neg. but the carping on various pros just bugs me....talk about the guy you root for rather than slamming someone you know nothing about, it's a good trait
jkoman is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 06:03 PM
  #47  
DocRay
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
we'll see 50/50 he doesn't make tomorrow, 70/30 on the plan de corones.
 
Old 05-22-06, 06:11 PM
  #48  
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Posts: 11,058

Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by jkoman
If he doesn't make the top it will be because he chose not to. I remain convinced he will show up at the TDF well prepared. I would say that no other rider showed up at the TDF as well prepared as LA nor team. Some of them may have actually out-performed LA based on their abiliities vs performance...some underperformed...all are studs.I still believe that # 2,3,or 4 in the world is deserving of high praise rather than disdain, but some only see 1/2 empty when they fully understand the variables. Others choose to see it that way even when they have no concrete/direct evidence to support.

My other premise still holds true....at what level do the nay-sayers perform in their chosen profession...answer that question...do they view themselves with the same disdain and disrespect they espouse to others? If they do I feel sorry for them...if they don't, I feel sorry for them....and hold them in disdain.

Why when LA rode for training in the early season was it smart and well planned, when Jan adopts it ....." I really doubt Ullrich will make it to the top of Plan de Corones???

Sorry to go so neg. but the carping on various pros just bugs me....talk about the guy you root for rather than slamming someone you know nothing about, it's a good trait
I think you miss the point. I'm not going to speak for the others who doubt him but from my perspective Jans ability to still end up on the podium when not at his ideal fitness (ie weight conditioning) is a testament to his emense talent. What gets me and I suspect others, all riled up is that had he put in the extra effort he would have been dominant. Possibly winning 8 or more Tours, this is where I think you miss read the negative comments.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 06:41 PM
  #49  
Enthalpic
Killing Rabbits
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,606
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Liked 162 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
I'm not going to speak for the others who doubt him but from my perspective Jans ability to still end up on the podium when not at his ideal fitness (ie weight conditioning) is a testament to his emense talent. What gets me and I suspect others, all riled up is that had he put in the extra effort he would have been dominant.
Exactly. Everyone just can't look past what he could have been. They fail to see what he already is; great. Even Lance and Basso are Jan fans. Jan is who they compare themselves to for a reason.
Enthalpic is offline  
Old 05-22-06, 07:20 PM
  #50  
DocRay
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Originally Posted by Enthalpic
Exactly. Everyone just can't look past what he could have been. They fail to see what he already is; great. Even Lance and Basso are Jan fans. Jan is who they compare themselves to for a reason.
Could have, was, used to be...he's 33 and has pissed away a rare gift. Could have, should have, does not define great cyclists.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.