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Simoni Accusation? Possible Spoiler.

Old 05-28-06, 02:33 PM
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Simoni Accusation? Possible Spoiler.

According to what I read
Gibo accused Basso of offering to let him win stage 20 for
money. It's kind of a strange story if you ask me.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug...ters&type=lgns
Simoni accusation casts shadow over Basso's Giro win

By Stephen Farrand

MILAN, Italy, May 28 (Reuters) - A stunning accusation from rival Gilberto Simoni cast a shadow over Ivan Basso's victory at the Giro d'Italia on Sunday.

The 28-year-old Italian from the CSC team won the three-week Giro by more than nine minutes from Spain's Jose Gutierrez, with Simoni third at 11:59.

But earlier in the day Simoni had accused Basso of asking him for money to let him (Simoni) win Saturday's 211-km 20th stage to Aprica.

"Five kilometres from the finish of the stage Basso asked me for money in exchange for him letting me win," said Simoni, Giro winner in 2001 and 2003.

"I've never asked for charity or for the stage win and when Basso asked for money it really hurt me. I've never done anything like that during my career."

When told of the accusation, Basso denied asking Simoni for money. "I don't know why Simoni said such nasty things," the Italian said.

"I won't allow anyone to ruin my victory at the Giro. I think I've shown I'm the best in the race and that I deserved the win in Aprica.

"To tell you the truth Simoni's accusations went in one ear and out of the other."

Basso won Saturday's tough mountain stage after he and Simoni had broken away from the rest of the pack, Basso going clear in the last four kms to beat his rival by 77 seconds.

After the finish of the Giro in Milan on Sunday, Italian television tried to persuade the two compatriots to shake hands but Simoni refused.

"Basso deserves his Giro win but he doesn't exist for me any more," said Simoni.

The Italian Cycling Federation is to open a formal investigation into the accusation.
The more I hear about Simoni the more I keep feeling that
he is a bitter old man (relatively) who casts aspertion at
anyone who betters him in the Giro. I think it is past time
for him to retire if this is in fact not true.
Personally I can't fathom Basso saying this, but then I never thought
Tyler would turn out a doper.

Marty
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Old 05-28-06, 02:55 PM
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What a poor loser...why would Basso need to bribe a win with 10 minute lead? Makes no sense, especially from a three-time loser and ex-doper, not exactly Mr. Integrity. Besides, he got dropped, again, why would Basso need to offer a bribe?

Of course, it is convenient that no one witnessed this conversation.
 
Old 05-28-06, 03:26 PM
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You've got it backwards - Basso offered to let Simoni win, not the other way around. Basically, Simoni is/was saying that Basso believed to have the win in his pocket, and was offering it to Simoni for a price.
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Old 05-28-06, 04:28 PM
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Simoni is a whinning loser. I have no respect for someone who clearly got beaten by a better man...all round and then cries about it.

Sore loser...AGAIN!
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Old 05-28-06, 04:59 PM
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Going back and forth between this forum and roadbikereview's I've found it interesting that RBR seems to be siding with Simoni and BF is unanimously siding with Basso.

Personally, I think Simoni is sounding more and more like a child in every interview I keep reading since the stage is over. The bribery accusation is ridiculous, I'm pretty sure that Basso is doing quite well as CSC's star, not to mention that the day before CSC was hinting towards trying to win the stage for Basso's son.
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Old 05-28-06, 05:08 PM
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More drama than an hour of "One Life to Live"
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Old 05-28-06, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cassadamius
You've got it backwards - Basso offered to let Simoni win, not the other way around. Basically, Simoni is/was saying that Basso believed to have the win in his pocket, and was offering it to Simoni for a price.

Why? Basso is one of the highest paid riders in the field, and he's just about to win the overall in the Giro.
either way, makes no sense.
 
Old 05-28-06, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DocRay
either way, makes no sense.
I would say that people like Simoni are rarely logical. Even if people thought that he was telling the truth earlier about Basso implying that he was going to gift him the stage, any sane person would realize he's being ridiculous after hearing this new story about attempted bribery.
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Old 05-28-06, 05:48 PM
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Simoni's career is at its sunset. He will not be remembered as one who won two Giros but rather one who complained like a baby every time he lost. That's the reputation he has rightfully earned.
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Old 05-28-06, 06:01 PM
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Just out of curiosity, This is the same Simoni that Lance chased down as well? The guy that basically no one likes? The man who was suing Lance over lost wages for chasing him down and not giving him a chance in the break? My opinion. This guy deserves to get his ass handed to him in every way possible from everyone in the peloton. More vocal whiners are hard to come by. What a shame because the guy obviously has talent.
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Old 05-28-06, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
Just out of curiosity, This is the same Simoni that Lance chased down as well? The guy that basically no one likes? The man who was suing Lance over lost wages for chasing him down and not giving him a chance in the break?
No. Not the same. I think you are referring to Filippo Simeoni. But all those Eye-talian names sound alike, right?


Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell
My opinion. This guy deserves to get his ass handed to him in every way possible from everyone in the peloton. More vocal whiners are hard to come by. What a shame because the guy obviously has talent.
Ok, since you're sure about it.

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Old 05-28-06, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DocRay
Why? Basso is one of the highest paid riders in the field, and he's just about to win the overall in the Giro.
either way, makes no sense.
It makes no sense when one thinks of it as one wants it to be. Jens/Riis giving the stage to Garate for some renumeration makes no sense if one wants to think of Jens in a certain way.

Simoni has always been a little testy when he's tired, but no one has ever accused him of being a liar before. I would recommend people look for patterns here, rather than try to fit events into preconceived ideas of how they want people to be.
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Old 05-28-06, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by waltergodefroot
It makes no sense when one thinks of it as one wants it to be. Jens/Riis giving the stage to Garate for some renumeration makes no sense if one wants to think of Jens in a certain way.

Simoni has always been a little testy when he's tired, but no one has ever accused him of being a liar before. I would recommend people look for patterns here, rather than try to fit events into preconceived ideas of how they want people to be.
Seems to me Simoni is throw stuff at the wall to see if something sticks. First he mentions a deal for him to win the stage if he doesn't drop Basso on the descent. Now the exchange of money was mentioned. No one can say for sure, but the money exchange seems unlikely. I suspect there was a misunderstanding about the no drop/stage win deal. It still doesn't change the fact Basso Dominated the Giro, Simoni did not get a stage win, and Simoni is curious as to why Basso was so dominate.

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Old 05-28-06, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by reef58
Seems to me Simoni is throw stuff at the wall to see if something sticks. First he mentions a deal for him to win the stage if he doesn't drop Basso on the descent. Now the exchange of money was mentioned. No one can say for sure, but the money exchange seems unlikely. I suspect there was a misunderstanding about the no drop/stage win deal. It still doesn't change the fact Basso Dominated the Giro, Simoni did not get a stage win, and Simoni is curious as to why Basso was so dominate.

Richard
Ok, first Basso said he just asked Simoni not to take any risks on the final descent of the stage. Then he backtracked and said he did ask Simoni to go slow and not drop him on the descent. Then he shifts up a gear on the final climb and powers away from Simoni after Simoni waited for him on the descent. Now Simoni comes out with this. We've already seen CSC involved in a give away at a stage finish this Giro.

How much television advertising is it worth to a sponsor to get their name on the top step of a GT stage? Well, I'm not saying there is a connection, but when Saiz was asked to put down the espresso, he was carrying a satchel stuffed with 60,000 euros in cash.

If you know the history of this sport, the money exchange does not seem unlikely. It may seem unseemly, but not unlikely. Sorry if that upsets anyone's nighty night dreams, but that is the real world.

For my part, I don't know what to believe, and since I'm not there and not privy to inside info, I refrain from judgement. But I do know that Simoni's accusations are well within the realm of possiblity.
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Old 05-28-06, 09:14 PM
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yes, riders get paid in the race but in this situation it doesn't really make sense.

Usually the scenario is a "contender" needs to bridge to the breakaway. He needs someone to pull him up to it w/o cooking himself. No teammates around but XX is and he has no real hope of winning. Thus it is MUTUALLY beneficial for a money deal. XX gets some cash for some work, "Contender" gets into the break to contest the win.

In the Simoni/Basso instance, it would be more logical if Simoni tried to make a money deal with Basso for a stage win he was so desperately seeking.

Maybe Basso rejected the deal and Simoni is doing some pre-emptive negative press before Basso said anything.

If Basso asked him to wait on the descent, it is just as likely that Simoni asked for a deal for the stage win at that time too.

I also find it hard to believe money would be a motivating factor for Basso, who beyond his salary, probably makes 50X more from endorsements.
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Old 05-28-06, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by waltergodefroot
No. Not the same. I think you are referring to Filippo Simeoni. But all those Eye-talian names sound alike, right?
Thanks for the correction. Still needs to have his @$$ handed to him...wait, never mind...it happened when Basso took over a minute on him in under three km.
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Old 05-28-06, 09:50 PM
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Basso: I'll sell you the victory, Gibo.

Simoni: How much?

Basso: If you have to ask, you can't afford it. SEE YA!


AS IF Basso needed any help whatsoever from Simoni. Ludicrous. Are we supposed to think that Basso felt he'd be in trouble if Simoni eked out a small lead on the descent? He'd have rapidly TT'ed up to him, traded a few pulls, then blown him away up the entire Aprica and completely rubbed Simoni's nose in it.

Maybe next year Mr. Wounded Ego will beat Il Bassassin to Milano.
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Old 05-28-06, 11:09 PM
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Interestingly, when Simoni was a young pro, he had temporarily asked his team to suspend his salary. (I think he was riding for Ballan at the time.) He didn't feel as though his results were justifying his salary. I was really impressed, as I couldn't imagine anyone in the NFL or NBA acting that way. Simoni also grew up in the same village as Francesco Moser, another legendary Italian racer. When Moser competed in the mid 80's, Simoni was a young teenager already doing century rides in the Dolomites. The day Moser won the Giro, Simoni returned from an epic ride of something like 120 miles in the mountains. He got back to the village at about 10 pm, and people were still celebrating in the streets. (The information in this paragraph is what I remember from an article in Procycling from a few years ago.) It seems like Simoni got off to a good start, and had his head screwed on straight.

Somewhere along the lines, things changed. In 2004 Simoni tried to break away on a climb, was caught, and then couldn't follow when his teammate Cunego counter attacked and dropped everyone as if he was shot out of a catapult. At the finish line, Simoni is shouting that his teammate is a bastard and ignorant, and whining about how he has been betrayed. Cunego was clearly the strongest rider at the Giro that year, not only among the Saeco team, but in the entire field.

Now in 2006, Simoni first claims that Basso asked him to go easy on the descent, and then later changes the story to claiming that Basso wanted money to let him win the stage. How much money is Basso already making? How much would Basso get for winning the stage? How much more will he make in product endorsements after the Giro? Something tells me he doesn't need Simoni's money.

Furthermore, I doubt he was carrying that picture of his son in his jersey pocket, just to keep it tucked away until after the stage. Circumstantial evidence? Of course. But everything I have read about Basso indicates that he is quite a gentleman. If any criticisms could be levelled at Basso, it would be that he is too nice for his own good. Personally I think Simoni can't deal with his pride and ego being used as a punching bag when he is beaten by riders who are younger and/or more talented than him. As his career heads towards it's twilight, it is going to happen more and more often. He'd better get used to it.
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Old 05-29-06, 12:00 AM
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I wish I could say I'm not suspicious about Basso's giro performance.
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Old 05-29-06, 12:00 AM
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RBR may be on Simoni's side, but no one at the race seemed to be. The commentators were tearing him up regularly for his comments, pointing out that it was bad for cycling, the Giro, and the riders. The press spoke similarly. They all believe Basso to be above that.

Zomegnan made it a point to attend the post-stage show reportedly to get the matter settled. Both riders were there as well. Unfortunately, Simoni was not in a repentant mood.

Simoni and Michael Schumacher belong together. Except that Schumacher may have more talent. And more money, of course

One great idea was proposed by a spectator with a big sign: Sgarbozza for President of the Cycling Federation. Things would always be out in the open then.
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Old 05-29-06, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by waltergodefroot
I would recommend people look for patterns here, rather than try to fit events into preconceived ideas of how they want people to be.
Yes the patterns are quite obvious. Cunego beats him fair and square at the Giro in 04 and he spends the next year whining about how he is a backstabber, I believe he used the term bastard at one point. Cunego was clearly in better form and dropped him easily. Now he gets beat handily by Basso in virtually every stage and then accuses the man of doping, which is laughable considering he's had his run in's with doping himself. He now has to resort to bribery charges! Why not say this from the the beginning instead of the please don't drop me accusation? It's certainly is more inflammatory. The pattern with Simoni has shown that since he won his last Giro he's been a less than gracious loser.
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Old 05-29-06, 08:11 AM
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It's sad to see such a great climber, and racer turn to be so bitter, and malicious. Perhaps hes still on cocaine, and these are just the side effects? Does anyone remember that Giro scandal? For those who do not remember, Ill refresh your memory.

Simoni was ejected from the 2002 Giro when cocaine was found in both the A, and B samples of his blood. Later, he came forward with a note from his dentist in an attempt to explain why nose candy was found in his system. Yeah, the last time I went to the dentist, we each did a few lines, and then he worked on my molars.

Arrivederci Gibo!
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Old 05-29-06, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bac
It's sad to see such a great climber, and racer turn to be so bitter, and malicious. Perhaps hes still on cocaine, and these are just the side effects? Does anyone remember that Giro scandal? For those who do not remember, Ill refresh your memory.

Simoni was ejected from the 2002 Giro when cocaine was found in both the A, and B samples of his blood. Later, he came forward with a note from his dentist in an attempt to explain why nose candy was found in his system. Yeah, the last time I went to the dentist, we each did a few lines, and then he worked on my molars.

Arrivederci Gibo!
I thought he was claiming it had been due to some throat lozenges that his aunt brought back for him from South America. Either way, it ranks right up there with Frank Vandenbrouck's "The drugs were for my dog" story.
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Old 05-29-06, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by HigherGround
I thought he was claiming it had been due to some throat lozenges that his aunt brought back for him from South America. Either way, it ranks right up there with Frank Vandenbrouck's "The drugs were for my dog" story.
Yup, just like with stage 20, he had multiple stories regarding the reason for his doping expulsion. What a class act.
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Old 05-29-06, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bac
It's sad to see such a great climber, and racer turn to be so bitter, and malicious. Perhaps he’s still on cocaine, and these are just the side effects? Does anyone remember that Giro scandal? For those who do not remember, I’ll refresh your memory.

Simoni was ejected from the 2002 Giro when cocaine was found in both the A, and B samples of his blood. Later, he came forward with a note from his dentist in an attempt to explain why nose candy was found in his system. Yeah, the last time I went to the dentist, we each did a few lines, and then he worked on my molars.

Arrivederci Gibo!
[shaking head sadly]Wow, the mob is out in force. This just reinforces how easily people are controlled and manipulated by politicians. Pretty boy Basso, whom no one here knows anything about other than what they read in the media, flashes a photo of his infant child and he is a saint. How many jerseys will he sell off that?[/shaking head sadly]

bac, it appears you are one of the primary malfeasants in this by posting completely inaccurate information, lies, about Simoni. Simoni was not ejected from the 2002 Giro. He retired of his own volition. And he did not test positive for cocaine in the 2002 Giro. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start twitching in uncontrollable mob hysteria. Here is the story:

From cyclingnews.com

Act Two of the comic opera that has become this year's Giro d'Italia opened today with the suprise retirement of 2001 Giro champion Gilberto Simoni. After his dramatic stage win yesterday in Campitello Matese that established him as the favorite in this years twisting, turbulent Giro d'Italia, Simoni had a big surprise waiting back at the Hotel Miletto in Campitello Matese where three police inspectors were waiting for him.

The trio of detectives had shown up from Trento, under the authority of provincial prosecutor Bruno Giardina, who has opened a file on Simoni under the motive of "possible of use of illegal drugs." Simoni was thus interrogated as a "person informed of the facts of the case"; coincidently for Simoni, his attorney Agostino Guardamagna, who had come to the Giro for the day, was present, as was Claudio Corti, Saeco-Longoni Sport team manager.

Simoni was able to confirm that while at the office of Dr. Bruno Grosselli of Torbole sul Garda for a filling on 24 April, an local anesthetic containing two percent carbocaine with adrenaline was administered to him, which was further corroborated by the medical certificate furnished by Simoni's dentist to the UCI and Giro race organization. Perhaps Trento prosecutor Bruno Giardina was fishing for another big case like Pantani's 1999 Giro d'Italia expulsion at Madonna di Campiglio which his office handled, but the scope of Giardina's investigation seems minor; mostly to verify where the traces of cocaine came from in the surprise drug test from the WADA on 24 April that allegedly found the cocaine in Simoni's urine sample. However, under the broad powers granted to prosecutors in Italy, Giardina and his investigators may chose to broaden the scope of the inquest considerably without substantial proof of wrongdoing.

Subsequent to his interrogatation, the pressure from the other teams in the Giro and the race direction to pull Simoni from the race became just too great for Claudio Corti to resist. Certainly Corti had to look at the big picture of protecting the entire team, but after, a bitter Simoni told La Gazzetta Dello Sport that "for me to stop now, after my win in Campitello Matese, will make everyone think I'm guilty (of doping) ."

Bitter words too from Giuseppe Martinelli, directeur sportif of Saeco-Longoni, who said "I only want someone to explain to me why the news of Simoni's non-negative test is coming out in the middle of the Giro and not before. If we knew before, he wouldn't have started and none of this mess would never have happened." As well as Simoni, Roberto Sgambelluri (Mercatone Uno) found non-negative for Nesp in Groningen was asked to leave by Giro Boss Carmine Castellano.
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