Countersteering works as described by San Rensho: If you turn your bars to the right then the momentum of your body weight and that of the rest of the bike will cause the bike to 'fall' the opposite way (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction is about as scientific as it gets).

If you were to take you hands off the bars at this point then the bike will straighten itself out again because the 'fall' action causes the front wheel back to turn back the other way. This is how you steer the bike when you are walking along holding it by the saddle.

You can test this by nudging one side of your bars a little bit as you ride along no-hands style in a straight line at a comfortable pace. You won't crash. The front wheel turn in the direction that you push it, the bike will tilt a little, and then the front wheel will straighten out. Amazing, huh?

OK, so we've got the bike to start to lean over. The bike will continue to lean further the longer you hold the front wheel off centre. The speed at which you tilt is governed by the angle of turn on the front wheel. So it holds that if you don't eventually return the bars to a straight ahead position you will eventually lean to far and you will crash.

So you return the front wheel to a straight on position. What's going to happen? Well you're leaning over, so you're going to turn in the direction of the lean. If you want a really snappy turn then you can turn the bars into the turn a little. This will whip you into a tight turn, so be ready to straighten it out.

Most good motorcycle and bike riders use this technique to make 'last minute' evasive action to avoid an obstacle in their path. It's very natural and very fast.

However, reverse steering is not practical in all crit applications, mostly on hairpin turns and very tight, technical corners. For fast sweeping corners it's pointless and will usually ruin your line through the corner.

How much of a counter steer do you use?

Of course it would all depend on your speed and angle of approach... But I was trying the counter steer techniwue today on my ride and like you stated when I would turn the wheel the opposite direction I had to fight to keep it there. But I barely turned it at all for fear of flipping over sideways.

It makes a lot of sense on a motorcycle.... but in these instances the bike wheels are "sliding" around the turn..... This would not work on a road bike tire.

http://www.speedwaybikes.com/wimages...ldaytona03.jpg
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/wimages...telleatsdr.jpg
http://www.kynoch-douglas-parts.com/...rd-sliding.jpg

Cool shots!

On a bike you use countersteering to 'throw' your bike into a sharp turn. It's a two part process: countersteer then counteract. How much countersteer to apply depends on what you are trying to do. You can safely apply a lot if there is sufficient grip between tyre and pavement.

Having said that, you will normally have far more grip than your brain will reckon as the maximum. Try this before you mount you bike on your next ride. Place one hand on the stem and one hand one the saddle. Now lean the bike over, pushing in line with the frame with all of your body weight. Lean the bike over further and further until it starts to slip on the pavement. Don't be surprised if you get as low as 30degrees or lower (like the B/W pic above)!!! The amount of grip offered by 2 measly 1cm square patches of rubber is truly amazing.

Thanks a lot Jock, I'll have to try that tomorrow.... just another skill to hone :)

Question: when you say "counteract" do you mean turning the front wheel back into the turning angle (re straiting)..... or letting the front wheel correct itself automatically?

You wouldn't have any adivce on riding no-hands on a twitchy bike would ya!?

On everyone of my bikes riding no hands is a breeze... but on my race bike the steering feels so twitchy that whenever I go to take my hands off the bars the wheel starts to turn (this is at speed too).

Go straight.
Get some speed.
Gently put pressure on the right bar.
Hold the pressure.
See which way the bike wants to go.

Amaze your friends.

It tracks fine with very little pressure.. it just seems that when I take the hands off the handelbars wants to turn either direction. very un-nerving when you are in the middle of taking off a vest. :eek:

Yes, I'm talking about a fast, sharp turn, usually 90 degrees or more. Any corner you can pedal through you would not use hard countersteering.

Couple of things to check:

saddle not tilted up/down compared to the other bikes? sliding forward or backward on the saddle changes everything, especially balance.

compare the saddle height with your other bikes. If it's even slightly too high it can cause your pelvis to tilt when you're pedalling, which will put you off balance.

headset not loose is it? Grab the front brake and try to move the bike forward and backward. You'll feel movement if headset is loose.

What about front wheel cones? grab the rim & try to wobble the wheel left and right. there should be no movement.

Other than that it could be that your bike is indeed twitchy (common with crit and sprint bikes), with a shallower rake, shorter wheelbase, or steeper seat tube angle. You'll just have to practice.

Gyroscopic Precession. An applied force is manifested 90deg later in the direction of rotation. For a simple example take your front wheel off and spin it. Holding it by the ends of the axle try to turn it to the right, what happens?

This isn't related to the pics you showed of Motorcycles sliding. It's a very precise way to initiate and regulate lean angle, very heavily used in Motorcycle Road Racing (and by knowedgable street riders). Works extremely well on a Bicycle at speed, if you want to be a good crit rider master this technique.

Summary, if you want to lean the bike into a left hand turn push on the left bar. A gentle turn requires little pressure, a sharp or fast turn requires a lot. Your bike and body lean will naturally follow this move if you are relaxed, you dont have to consiously shift weight, ect.

What happens? My dog starts running around in circles. Make him stop!

Yell at him, he'll stop.

#t=39s
So, in this video at 0:42, a guy is heard yelling, "Inside! Inside!" and it appears to force a lead guy off his line. Does this mean the lead guy's only motivation for yielding is politeness or self-preservation?

this is a four year old thread.

So the question isn't relevant? Wasn't aware of a shelf-life on webpages.

i'll answer you in 4 years

Give him credit for using the search function people are constantly harping on. Welcome to the racing forum where, like in racing, you can seldom win no matter what.

The answer to your question is both.

just don't be that guy shouting all the time in the race about what everyone else is doing (while being oblivious to the fact he's the tool). I hate that guy.

So let's see... that'd be a premature leadout by two "cool guys" that want a little attention however they can get it, followed by two friendly guys that seem to have it in perspective and know what's going on?

Thanks, kensuf. That was really the answer I was looking for. I'm expecting more hand-checks and "whoa-watch-its," so I had to get some support for when it happens.

But I'll probably still need more clarification for this type of scenario.

relax, in 4 years i'm going to give a kick ass answer to your question!

Don't be the guy constantly whistling everytime someone attacks but never gets to the front to do anything about it...

I have marked my calendar...I'm expecting big things from you...do not disappoint me...

ok - i cant wait 4 years.

guys yelling inside: this happens in a few different scenarios. one is at some point during a race when someone gets pretty tight on the curb w front wheel inside of rider in front's rear wheel. they're not really trying to advance their position, they just overshot or put themsselves accidently into harms way. it would be courteous of the rider in front to make a little room. if i'm the guy in front, i usually do as in this case it's typically no harm no foul. i would liken this to the person who is driving on the interstate, accidentally gets into an exit lane, then wants to get back into the line of traffic. no big deal, let them back in.

a second instance is when someone who has positioned themselves too far back, wants to advance their position, lacks to skill to do it, and decides to start yelling inside, inside, in an attempt to move up where they think they should be. some folks will move, either instictively, to be polite, or for self preservation. i equate this to the driver who attempts to go around traffic backed up by gunning it up the shoulder, then when they come to an overpass putting on their turn signal and expecting someone to let them in. in the shoulder example it is wise to let the person in because it's a non-competitive situation, etc. in a race situation, they should be ignored.

when racing, plan your moves ahead of time, like chess, so you dont end up stuck or "boxed in".

watch a cat 3, 4, 5 race, and listen, there are always dolts shouting "inside".

watch a p1/2/3 race or masters race, you dont hear this.

Great now I need to make new plans for Dec 20th 2014.

^^^+1

If you yell "inside" during the calmer parts of the race, I'll comply. If you do it in the final sprint, you're just telling me how to shut you down, and I will (unless I've been waiting for someone to make a move... you never know).

+2