Loss of Respect.
 

The idea has been thrown around lightly here on BF. I believe it needs it's own thread.

When my co-workers ask me about the Tour, I usually have the same answer: "It's hard to watch, but I'd like to see Cadel finally get on the podium". They ask why it's hard to watch: "Because I see all of the riders that I used to look up to doing so poorly, and it's not just one guy. It's almost all of the straight up heros that have been stomping ass for years. Now they are all upper middle pack fodder, and in a strange twist of fate, the dope supply from Spain has been shutdown. Suspect? You betcha."

Can anybody else relate to me as far as seeing consistently good riders doing not so hot, and then realizing that there is a good chance it is due to a certain investigation?

Yes. But it doesn't make it any harder to watch. It's more intriguing than anything else.

yeah.. like you can totally tell levi got his injection today.

i think the OLN guys should come up with a phrase for the no-dope-bonk. something like "uh-oh, it looks like someone didn't take their medicine today."

that would be awesome.

then again, i guess there's already a variation of that when they say "he must be a little sick."

I believe it's "I don't know what's happening with..."

Maybe a case of a few lesser knowns just getting an oppotunity to kick butt on the peloton.

I have to agree. After watching Iban Mayo cursing at the cameraman over his climb on the Tourmalet, I was definitely left wondering what happened. But on the other hand, I'm glad to see it. The leaders are guys who have paid their dues, and I don't miss any of the former giants.

DrPete

Until they become better known and have to just say no as well.

Yep, definitely been noticing a lack of performance of some......but, it's actually more interesting. But it's weird seeing those who you expect to see kick ass do poorly (with the exception of Robbie McKewen). It's like Levi has fallen off the face of the earth, and then Iban Mayo falling off the back on the first major climb....or Boonen not winning one sprint/stage.

It should be an interesting outcome though.

Yeah, Levi only pulled off 2nd today - someone should tell him to get to work :rolleyes:

I can see where Cypress is coming from. The racing last night reminded me of racing in 1989 - pre EPO.

Good riders were cracking, the riders actually looked like they were hurting.....

Howard Johnson is right!
I see the difference, and if it's indeed true and not some absurd coincidence, then welcome to the new sport.

Now if we could just get rid of the radios, we'd be back to real racing.

Off topic, but not really: was anyone else screaming at Floyd to attack today?

That's not fair, Boonen has been right there every time. I blame it on tactics, Boonen is a marked man and other riders have been willing to make the first move.

Local Cat 5, baby... No radios, and no dope (as far as I know)... We're the real deal. :)

And yes--I totally wanted Floyd to go for some blood today. Boogerd did way too good a job pushing the pace for Menchov, though, I think.

DrPete

Hell Yeah. :D
Going to watch stage 11 now, will see the carnage.

looks like he mite have gone for some yesterday .... ;)

yeah, boogerd did great until he finally tuckered-out and got flicked.

Hincapie 23 minutes back, Zebriskie 40 minutes back. Weren't they the favorites?
Floyed is now in yellow thought. I think he rode a pretty good race, conserved his energy.

Cypress, I know what you mean...... I hope everyone's suspicions are correct and not just coincidence of a bug going around the peloton. I really wish the UCI would issue the hematocrit levels throughout the race of different riders. There would be no way a rider coulf be close to 48% by the time Paris came around.

Boonen, Hincapie (all of Disco.), Mayo..... all doing soo badly this year. I hope they are just sick..... but somehting deaper tells me they dope.

Yeah, but I was expecting something more... Sure he beat Dessel, but didn't exactly blow the race wide open. I mean, he's in yellow, but didn't really open a lead on the bigger GC contenders.

DrPete

As for what you are watching in the USA, OLN does NOT control what the camera shows. OLN is at the mercy of what the French TV broadcasters show and have to adapt their commentary to it.

No they weren't. Hincapie was hyped by some, but it was a fantasy from the get go, based solely on one opportunistic stage last year. Zabriskie was a favorite for the TT, but no one, including David, would say he was a GC contender.

This thought that all the heavyweights are failing because they are off their drugs IMHO is based upon limited historical knowledge, and the fact that some overhyped american riders (see e.g. Hincapie) have not lived up to unrealistic hype.

So who's failing? Mayo? He abandonded in almost the same spot in 2003 (when by theory he must have been doping) Liepheimer? One bad day, but pretty good yesterday, and headed for a finish about the same as last year. Rasmussen? He's where anybody with any knowledge of the tour could have guessed he'd be. On the other hand Menchov, and Landis are riding pretty darn well. If the theory is true, why isn't Menchov (who must have doped to win the Veulta, off the back, and Landis clearly doped to win Paris Nice, so why isn't he failing?

In large measure this year's TDF is going about to form, if you set aside the unrealistic pre race hype. And to the extent its more wide open, its not because the leaders don't have their drugs, its because the patron of the peleton is gone.

Agree with this for the most part. I think we are seeing why the big guns (lance, Ulrich, ect) were big and why the B riders were B. Take George Hincapie, there is a big difference between setting the pace leading up to and taking on the race on the final climb. The greats are there and ready to do battle at crunch time, every day! The goods are there on thier good days, and off the back on the final climb the rest of the time.

So far we are seeing a battle of the "Goods". Perhaps a great rider will emerge?

Just to throw another angle into the discussion... I keep looking at the elevation profile for yesterday's stage and I'm just amazed. I mean, this is a race that in and of itself would be a hell of a classic, and there it is sandwiched between 10 days of riding on either side. And while I'm no expert on the history of Le Tour, it's now 1200km longer than the first one, and even then mere survival was considered a feat.

Could it be that with events like the grand tours we're just setting up unrealistic expectations and really encouraging doping? I mean, if only, say, 10% of the pro peloton can truly hang to contend for a grand tour, aren't the other 90% going to be tempted to do something that makes the experience less agonizing?

I'm just throwing it out there--I'm torn, though, because I do love the spectacle of the Tour, and I do think that it's an amazing accomplishment, but the distances/paces that it has built up to just seem to perpetuate the problem of PED's.

DrPete

In an interview, Boonen said he has not been winning, because the sprints are too slow. He claimed that the sprints are running 5k slower than normal, which gives smaller, weaker, sprinters the ability to stay with him and then pass him at the line.

He did not say what might cause the sprinters to be "so slow" in 2006, compared with 2005.

Phil and Paul mentioned this today on OLN. This may be the first clean tour.
I agree with pete, the whole way Giros and TDFs are designed may have to change, as doping has been part of the sport, and never left, since the 50s.
However, LeGrand was once quoted as saying the perfect tour would only have one rider left.

Today's interview on OLN with Hamilton was truely pathetic, he and his wife now have changed the "I'm innocent" tune to "it's very, very complicated". He cheated, he got caught, what's so complicated? I hope they connect him with OP and kick his ass out of the sport for good.