Trevor98

I thought this was a thread about Landis (not Armstrong). A chemical test merely points out the quantities of a specific chemical- humans then interpret that result and determine causality. The human (a lab tech) is what makes the accusation and humans are faliable- hence the B sample test observed by an observer for the athlete.

maximum01

if this is confirmed as true landis should be given a lifetime ban as well as having his tour title stripped away.

cycling is too precious a sport to allow the selfish cheating actions of one individual ruin it. not only will he put the tour de france into disrepute but the whole sport of cycling.

some laughable quotes from this article:

"What I need to prove now," said Landis, "is there are variations in my testosterone-epitestosterone level that are out of the ordinary."

He has since let it be known that he drank a couple of beers and four whiskies the night before his surprising recovery in the Tour. If that is a strand of his defence, he might want to think again. US sprinter Dennis Mitchell tried the same argument in 1998, throwing in the added circumstance that he had also made love several times, all of which contributed to his high testosterone.

four whiskies....lol....yea, whatever you say Landis

Trevor98

Why a lifetime ban? Wouldn't that be changing the rules after the offense has been committed?

maximum01

because doping is killing the sport of cycling. the current deterrents clearly don't work. every second story in cycling is about doping allegations....it's getting ridiculous.

GuitarWizard

What does blood doping have to do with high testosterone...besides nothing...

merlinextraligh

Ok, mulitiple sources are reporting that the confriming Isotope test for foreign testosterone was performed,and was positive. Multiple sources, including the guy that developed the test, are stating that it is standard WADA lab procedure to do the isotope test in the event the T/E ratio is high, before reporting the A sample as positive, and Landis' lawyer is attacking the accuracy of the Isotope test, rather than stating that it was't done or was negative.

Now, do you still believe L' Equipe is lying when they said it was done, and was positive?

maximum01

er, injecting testosterone or in Landis's case sticking a testostorone pad to your bollocks to cheat your way to a stage 17 victory would probably be considered doping to most people.

roadwarrior

OK...I was just wondering...I have a few "friend of a friend" friends, too.

But they usually get me free team stuff, rather than info.

cuda2k

I've heard multiple values for what his ratio was in the intial tests. Ranging from 11:1 to 6:1. This whole mess is just that... a mess. Differeing information comes out hourly it seems.

Trevor98

Isn't that why they instituted the two year protour ban in addition to the regular two year ban. I think a lifetime ban would be a little overzealous and unjust. Ex post facto sentencing is a miscarriage of justice.

Trevor98

Isn't that why they instituted the two year protour ban in addition to the regular two year ban. I think a lifetime ban would be a little overzealous and unjust. Ex post facto sentencing is a miscarriage of justice.

Trevor98

double post

DocRay

Two beers and four wiskeys, the night before his heroic stage?
Sorry, but there is no way an athlete would get that intoxicated in the middle of a race and not have performance problem the next day, especially with dehydration.

All of this stuff Landis said post-result just does not make sense.

merlinextraligh

Strategically planned to set up the Chewbaca defense.

Psimet2001 

kosherdave

I would tend to agree, if he was not an (ex) mennonite. Floyd is notorious for going overboard. Think of how American turning 21 acts with alcohol. Now think of a European... they don't act like such doushe bags over the pond. Now, think of an American who grew up NEVER drinking, and being in a position where they can. There was recently a movie about this... anyway, my point is that Landis goes overboard and is "uncontrollable" by cycling standards. Armstrong HATED how childish Landis acts. So, I'd say it is perfectly reasonable to believe he'd go drinking while on the tour.

Also, 2 beers and 4 wiskeys, come on, I can drink that in the course of a night (and I'm a slim 150 lbs), drinking with water (as I do when I drink) will keep you hydrated. I personally would not recommend drinking anything alcoholic before a race, but having said that, I've been wasted, gotten 3 hours of sleep and run a half marathon (in good time) the next morning on a few stupid occasions.

Snicklefritz

What's the status of the B sample?

platypus

Over at velonews, it's now being reported that (nearly simultaneously) the UCI and Landis' representives have "formally" asked for the B sample to be tested this week - apparently before the French labs shut down for some Holidays they have there.

RockyMtnMerlin

I lived in Spain for two years and in Germany for two years. I have seen more than a few young Europeans acting like "doushe bags" (sic) after drinking too much. Ever been in Munich when the Army conscripts finish their time in the military and drunkenly stumble up and down the streets singing at the top of their lungs? Big time DB's.

El Diablo Rojo

If Flandis did this (cheated) then the really sad thing is that he'll be the only one to be punished. His team had to be complicit in this. Does anyone really think that Floyd just happened to have some testosterone lying around the hotel room? Perhaps he hit up the local dealer!? Just sent one of his 'boy' to the wrong side of town to pick up a few vials.

If he did this he did with the full knowledge of his DS, and most likely at the behest of his DS. But only Floyd will take the fall. Another rider whose career will be ruined while the rest of the culprits go scot free.

Cromulent

Maybe that's what he traded a yellow jersey for.

Lithuania

i feel like he is too far into this to ever admit it now. kinda like pete rose.

Snicklefritz

so if he did have synthetic whatever in his system then why did he test clean on all the other tests? I mean how dumb could he be to go over the limit on one day knowing that he could get tested. I'm not sure I buy the "he did it becuase he was about to lose anyway so why not juice and have a chance"

Snicklefritz

and another take on the whole thing - what's to prevent the french lab from spiking someone's sample? If they did something like this, how would anyone know?

Cassadamius

it hasn't even set in for me that this is possibly true. I've just been reading the news with excitement, waiting for some kind of revelation. It's just hard to believe that, if the B sample tests positive as assumed, then he will be stripped of the jersey. What about the amazing season that Landis has had thus far? California? It just ruins so much. I almost would rather not know that he was doping, and this is probably how it goes for the rest of the peloton.