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Latest Landis wrinkle....

Old 09-10-06, 03:46 PM
  #26  
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Why release any information to anyone without BOTH SAMPLES BEING TESTED AND CONFIRMED???
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Old 09-10-06, 03:50 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
This whole affair has had a real chilling affect on me. As most of you know I'm in the "they all dope and I don't care" camp. However for some odd reason Floyd's doping has really bothered me, to the point where I've lost almost all interest in pro cycling. Honestly if LA had been popped it wouldn't have even fazed me. Ulrich and Basso's expulsion from the Tour didn't even cause a moments hesitation on my part. But Floyd struck a nerve and I haven't recovered. I truly have lost the will to care.
I feel the same way...kind of numb over the whole situation.
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Old 09-11-06, 04:31 AM
  #28  
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I can't find the quote but Leblanc made a comment that the unnamed rider with the questionable results (released by the UCI) was the worst case scenario (indicating the Tour winner). Bad behavior all around.
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Old 09-11-06, 05:38 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by EURO
A random guy's 'family doc' - a 'state ranked triathlete' of all things (!) has an expert opinion!
Hmmm...a random guy who is an amateur recreational racer weighs in with his "expert" opinion quite often. Less now because he cannot control himself.

But, as Harry Callahan once said, "Opinions are like @ssholes. Everybody's got one."
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Old 09-11-06, 12:28 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by patentcad
The Marion Jones track and field incident (where the 'A' sample was positive and the 'B' sample was negative) underscores the folly of leaking any such info to anyone until both tests are conclusive. Now the sport/athlete are under a cloud, the testing appears flawed, track and field's governing officials look like idiots - somebody help me here, what IS the point? WHO is this helping?
The press. Scandal sells papers. And in the Jones case she had missed two meets she was expected to be at. That alone is enough to start a reporter digging. In that case they found (premature) dirt. Of course non of this will hurt the press. In fact it actually helps, two (or more) rounds of dirt to sell papers.
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Old 09-11-06, 12:29 PM
  #31  
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can anybody explain how releasing results ( a breach of protocol) affect test results? While it may be that Landis can escape being sanctioned because of a breach of protocol, that has no bearing on synthetic testoserone being found in his blood/urine. It is like being found inocent of a crime committed because of a technicality. Guilt exists, legal innocence is not the same as lack of guilt. All of you "proclaiming" innocence due to technicalities are fools. IF (big if) Landis did indeed have testosterone of plant origin as reported, he is guilty of doping. He may not be sanctioned due to misbehavior, but the usage and guilt remain.
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Old 09-11-06, 12:44 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit
can anybody explain how releasing results ( a breach of protocol) affect test results? While it may be that Landis can escape being sanctioned because of a breach of protocol, that has no bearing on synthetic testoserone being found in his blood/urine. It is like being found inocent of a crime committed because of a technicality. Guilt exists, legal innocence is not the same as lack of guilt. All of you "proclaiming" innocence due to technicalities are fools. IF (big if) Landis did indeed have testosterone of plant origin as reported, he is guilty of doping. He may not be sanctioned due to misbehavior, but the usage and guilt remain.
If you know somebody is a liar, even if they only tell small lies, there is a tendency to realize that their integrity is suspect, and to believe that they wouldn't be above telling bigger lies if they had a good reason. In this case I'm not sure 'they' have a good reason though. If 'they' did, it seems to me 'they' would have lied about Lance Armstrong not Floyd Landis.

On the point abou testosterone, snarliness and training numbers. I saw some magizine that had lots of pictures of Floyd in training (last winter) and he had made all the same snarly faces he did while crossing the line of Stage 17. So one thing I think is safe to say is that that was normal for him. Whether normal means doped or not I don't know.
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Old 09-11-06, 12:52 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by patentcad
I hear you Dr. P. This really doesn't make sense - unless as my friend the former steroid using weightlifter (who knows something about this sort of thing) told me:

'sure it makes sense. Floyd's masking agent failed for one day.'

Fair enough in the world of utter speculation we're all immersed in here I suppse. Let's see how this all plays out.
Given his bonk/dehydration of Stage 16, this is a highly plausible scenario.
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Old 09-11-06, 02:46 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Keith99
The press. Scandal sells papers. And in the Jones case she had missed two meets she was expected to be at. That alone is enough to start a reporter digging. In that case they found (premature) dirt. Of course non of this will hurt the press. In fact it actually helps, two (or more) rounds of dirt to sell papers.
And there's the insidious Tour de France angle. Who OWNS the Tour de France? The publishers of L'Equipe, halfway between The National Inquirer and Sports Illustrated, a widely circulated French sports rag. Oh, and then there's the close relationship they have with the lab that does the dope testing.

Can you say Le Conflicte of Inereste? Oui Oui mon petite weenies.
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Old 09-11-06, 02:51 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by DrPete
So when all of the random scientific theories didn't work out, we fall back on the good old "The lab screwed me" excuse....

Yawn...

Worked for OJ Simpson, an he's obviously innocent.
 
Old 09-14-06, 06:19 AM
  #36  
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Why release any information to anyone without BOTH SAMPLES BEING TESTED AND CONFIRMED???
If it's anonymous, why not announce if you have a positive A sample? Why should the organisers keep it quiet?

Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Hmmm...a random guy who is an amateur recreational racer weighs in with his "expert" opinion quite often. Less now because he cannot control himself.

But, as Harry Callahan once said, "Opinions are like @ssholes. Everybody's got one."
As opposed to the opinion of a failed pro wannabe who hangs out of webforums trying to relive the old days?
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Old 09-14-06, 08:11 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit
can anybody explain how releasing results ( a breach of protocol) affect test results? While it may be that Landis can escape being sanctioned because of a breach of protocol, that has no bearing on synthetic testoserone being found in his blood/urine. It is like being found inocent of a crime committed because of a technicality. Guilt exists, legal innocence is not the same as lack of guilt. All of you "proclaiming" innocence due to technicalities are fools. IF (big if) Landis did indeed have testosterone of plant origin as reported, he is guilty of doping. He may not be sanctioned due to misbehavior, but the usage and guilt remain.

Tests do not happen in a vacuum they are conducted by humans and therefor subject to errors of humans. If you cannot trust the testing organization to follow their own protocols then you cannot trust the testing organization to follow their own rules. We are not talking about guilt or innocence here but rather the uncovering of either condition. Technicalities exist in punishment to insure that the authority does not abuse their power. Without the technicality of a B sample Marion Jones would be punished for something she may not have done. I am not omniscient and must rely on specialist in particular areas to inform me of specific incidents. In order to believe that specialist enough to punish someone you have to trust them- a unethical lab has a trust issue.

You may trust that the testing organization only violated one protocol but why should the rest of us. This is like someone lying to you and then you believing them telling you another story. Credibility is paramount here and the testers are lacking in that department.

If we become more concerned with punishing the guilty than protecting the innocent then we have lost a bit of the moral high ground. These violations diminish the effectiveness of the anti-doping effort and threaten to make the testing organizations a public joke. Had the LA lab not leaked the Jones information then the public would have never known of that labs folly. Trust is an important quality that WADA and its labs are flitting away.
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Old 09-14-06, 08:18 AM
  #38  
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All I have to say is that I still stand by my original opinion...

Originally Posted by khuon
To me, the real contraversy here is the seemingly sloppy work by the lab and the governing body. I've seen better lab procedures in a high school chemistry class.
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Old 09-14-06, 08:25 AM
  #39  
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>>If it's anonymous, why not announce if you have a positive A sample? Why should the organisers keep it quiet?<<

If you can't figure out why this might be bad for pro cycling - particularly if the 'B' sample tests negative and the announcement was pointless in the first place - then I give up. But then I gave up on you several months back Mr. Euro.
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Old 09-14-06, 12:14 PM
  #40  
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^^^
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Old 09-14-06, 01:08 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Maybe Dr. Pete will disagree, but my family doc is a state ranked triathlete. Been practicing medicine for a long time...he knows of no synthetic form of testosterone that goes away in one day. He also told me that for Landis' T/E ratio to go from 11:1 to under 4:1 in 24 hours...well, he's pretty much looking at that askance, as well.
Have your family doc read up on Testosterone Suspension.
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Old 09-14-06, 04:33 PM
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Busting dopers is hard enough without the authorities compromising the cases. It kinda like the keystone cops- no wonder doping is so rampant.
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Old 09-14-06, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevor98
Busting dopers is hard enough without the authorities compromising the cases. It kinda like the keystone cops- no wonder doping is so rampant.
+100.

The Duh of the Year Award goes to this post. BF thanks you.
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