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Well, golly...seems that lab really may have screwed the pooch...

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Well, golly...seems that lab really may have screwed the pooch...

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Old 09-12-06, 08:16 AM
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roadwarrior
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Well, golly...seems that lab really may have screwed the pooch...

Wow...

Second paragraph on page 2 is pretty stunning.
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Old 09-12-06, 08:18 AM
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Crazy question.... in this age of DNA testing, can't they just match the DNA from the urine samples to verify it's Floyd's?

Or am I just getting caught up in a CSI effect?

If it's a screw up...... holy crap.
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Old 09-12-06, 08:25 AM
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I'm hoping it is true and they throw out the allegations against Floyd. I really feel sorry
for the guys out there who aren't able to hire high powered lawyers and who never catch
stuff like this (if it is true).

and if it is, haven't the french labs already got part of what they wanted? Another smear
campaign against an american rider? Even if Floyd is vindicated, his name has already been
dragged through the mud. However, if this shows to the world that the french lab is biased,
I hope they get taken down hard.
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Old 09-12-06, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CyLowe97
Crazy question.... in this age of DNA testing, can't they just match the DNA from the urine samples to verify it's Floyd's?

Or am I just getting caught up in a CSI effect?

If it's a screw up...... holy crap.
You'd have to get pretty lucky to find a cell in normal urine, and it would certainly be difficult to get enough for DNA testing. Urine generally doesn't contain any DNA.
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Old 09-12-06, 08:40 AM
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I think Bicycling's last cover summed it up the best... I might be paraphrasing because I don't have it with me...

"Did Landis Cheat? Was he cheated? Either way, we lose."

At the end of the day, even if he is innocent, the doping culture of cycling made it 100% believable that Landis was juiced, and quite honestly he still may have been. The cutoffs for positives from what I've read and from what an endocrinologist friend told me are well beyond what's normal for humans anyway.

Floyd's victory has been forever tainted, and a lot of fans have been left disenchanted. I know I'm one of them.
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Old 09-12-06, 08:40 AM
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mishandling of specimens and chain of evidence were just
2 of the problems that the dutch investigator found at the
lab after the investigation last year.
I won't say that this is a conspiracy but I will say it appears
evident that the lab is, to be rather blunt, incompetent?

How did Floyd's attorney come to the conclusion stated
in paragraph 2? did they report a positive b sample with sample
number not matching the A sample from Floyd? How stupid is
that if it's true?

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Old 09-12-06, 08:41 AM
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Remember, you're reading an article based upon assertions by LAndis' lawyers. They're doing their best to cast doubt on the procedures which is of course their job. This is why the have a hearing to sort this stuff out. Maybe they'll cast enough doubt on things to skate. But I wouldn't get too worked up about the supposed irregularities based solely on hearing one side of the argument.
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Old 09-12-06, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Remember, you're reading an article based upon assertions by LAndis' lawyers. They're doing their best to cast doubt on the procedures which is of course their job. This is why the have a hearing to sort this stuff out. Maybe they'll cast enough doubt on things to skate. But I wouldn't get too worked up about the supposed irregularities based solely on hearing one side of the argument.
And what a fine job they did... they really spun it to make it sound like "case closed."
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Old 09-12-06, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Remember, you're reading an article based upon assertions by LAndis' lawyers.
The assertions appear to be founded in the inconsistencies found in the lab's own documentation. This is coming from a review of the documentation that was provided to his legal team.

And, yes, it appears that the B sample did not come from Landis' assigned sample codes. And worse, the "positive" does not meet the established standards.

There would be no point for his lawyer to make all this up, as when they go to hearing they will have to prove it. And based on what I read, it's coming from the lab's own material.
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Old 09-12-06, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Remember, you're reading an article based upon assertions by LAndis' lawyers.
I'm not a lawyer, but my father, sister, and brother are.

while Phloyd is paying his lawyers to state his case, I seriously doubt they lie/make things up. At least I know my lawyer would never do that.
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Old 09-12-06, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by botto
I'm not a lawyer, but my father, sister, and brother are.

while Phloyd is paying his lawyers to state his case, I seriously doubt they lie/make things up. At least I know my lawyer would never do that.
I'm not saying they made it up. I'm saying there are likely answers to all these assertions. Whether the answers are persuasive is why they have a hearing.
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Old 09-12-06, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
I'm not saying they made it up. I'm saying there are likely answers to all these assertions. Whether the answers are persuasive is why they have a hearing.
I'll bet there is...many will be awaiting the answer to the assertion that the B sample positive that is attributed to be Landis' comes from a sample # that was not assigned to Landis. Or the assertion that the alledged positive (that does not appear to even belong to Landis) does not meet the established standard. These appear to be facts gleaned from the lab's own material.

My guess is that the lights are on there this evening...
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Old 09-12-06, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
You'd have to get pretty lucky to find a cell in normal urine, and it would certainly be difficult to get enough for DNA testing. Urine generally doesn't contain any DNA.
Unless he ejaculated recently
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Old 09-12-06, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by stonecrd
Unless he ejaculated recently
I mean, he WAS drinking, and Amber's got it goin' on...
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Old 09-12-06, 10:01 AM
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I'm still waiting to hear the final "verdict" before forming any opinions....well, other than my current opinion that the majority of them are juiced in one way or another....
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Old 09-12-06, 10:14 AM
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Hamilton's lawyers had a lot of things they threw out there too. This is Landis's lawyers interpretation of events.

That being said I don't doubt the lab is dirty based on past history; but even if Floyd is ultimately cleared there will be a long shadow over his win.

IMHO it's far worse for the sport when the testers and people in charge of the testing fail to act and speak with absolute professionalism. Pound needs to go, the testers at the Vuelta need to get there on time, and someone needs to fire the person running this lab, which appears to be run in the same way Operation Puerto ran their storage facilities.
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Old 09-12-06, 10:28 AM
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One would think that a lab capable of making claims powerful enough to destroy someone's career would have their **** straight.

I guess not!
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Old 09-12-06, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
Hamilton's lawyers had a lot of things they threw out there too. This is Landis's lawyers interpretation of events.

That being said I don't doubt the lab is dirty based on past history; but even if Floyd is ultimately cleared there will be a long shadow over his win.

IMHO it's far worse for the sport when the testers and people in charge of the testing fail to act and speak with absolute professionalism. Pound needs to go, the testers at the Vuelta need to get there on time, and someone needs to fire the person running this lab, which appears to be run in the same way Operation Puerto ran their storage facilities.
Ok come on now...Tyler's lawyers were throwing around the theory that he had a chimera twin and was the rarest of the rare chimera where the other dna sample comes and goes. We are talking about something completely different here.
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Old 09-12-06, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by stonecrd
Unless he ejaculated recently
I suggest that instead of just a urine test at the end of a race, they also provide the rider with some privacy and a selection of magazines so they can get a reliable DNA sample...
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Old 09-12-06, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Grasschopper
Ok come on now...Tyler's lawyers were throwing around the theory that he had a chimera twin and was the rarest of the rare chimera where the other dna sample comes and goes. We are talking about something completely different here.
No, we're not. Deepen your reading a bit Grasshopper. They (Hamilton's legal and PR team) floated a dozen or more theories, including bringing in experts who said the test was not up to scientific standards, questioned the lab results and proceedures on the test that was first declared negative then postive, Etc.

The chimera twin was just one of many, though it gets most of the attention because it's the most outlandish.

Lawyers trot out in front of the press all the time and declare their clients innoccent. Well that's nifty, no need for a trial or hearing then.

What everybody's reading is Floyd's lawyers best spin on what they've found so far, which is what lawyers do. My guess is the French lab will say they did everything right.
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