snhrider

For some reason, I cannot get my training Ave/Max HR get up to the same Ave/Max when racing. In my last two races this weekend my Ave/Max HR was 174/188 and 175/186. On road training rides my HR is around 166/180 even when I think my perceived effort is almost 100%. On a trainer, when doing intervals, I could not even get my HR above 175.

Thoughts anyone ? Thanks.

GuitarWizard

Are you riding solo on your training rides?

snhrider

Yes. I ride solo on my training rides.

GuitarWizard

That's why. Ride with others on a hard training ride, and you'll be able to mimick race efforts more closely. While you think you're really pushing yourself when riding solo during hard rides, many times you can ride harder with a group than you can solo (unless it's a brutal hill workout - then all bets are off).

IKYR

Learn to suffer by youself... Seriously, somewhat unrelated, but a very strong masters racer once told me he didn't think he was as strong as he once was, but could still win races because after all those years he had really learned how to make himself suffer. Masochistic but effective...

wayne

TheKillerPenguin

What Wayne said is totally true. If when comparing solo intervals and death you could truly say death is the lesser of two evils, you're training right. It'll let you know what you really are capable of, and it'll make you stubborn as hell come race day.

There have been a bunch of times during the season that I would have let myself drop out of the front pack because it was so painful, except that I could think back to a time when I was doing intervals that felt 10X worse. Mental fortitude is a huge part of racing.


edit: IMO the lower peak and avg. HR is probably because you're concentrating more on the pain than you would be on race day, so it feels like you're closer to 100% effort than you really are.

timmhaan

i have the same problem too. the only way i can reach the same heart rate level in racing is by training on hills....but that's an entirely differnent sort of workout. i've never been able to push myself hard enough to reach my max on the flats.

snhrider

So to have an effective interval workout, is it then necessary to acheive the same racing HR when training solo ? Given that its difficult to acheive the same heart levels as racing when riding solo (or even on the trainer), i am just wondering if it is correct to do intervals at the lower heart rates that racing.

asgelle

Aside from the possible difference in effort between riding solo and racing, there is also the effect of stress on heart race while racing. I've noticed my heart rate will be 5-20 bpm higher at the same power in a race than in training. A lot of factors other than level of effort can affect heart rate.

grebletie

You do intervals at or above your lactate threshold (LT). It's difficult for me to say what your LT is, but judging from your average race heart rate, it's probably somewhere in that neighborhood.

Basically, intervals should be done at whatever effort you can sustain for the period of time you are pushing yourself. If it's a 5 minute interval, you should be pounding your body into the ground for those 5 minutes, and really feel spent by the end of the interval. Recover and spin slowly, then repeat.

The same applies for shorter or longer intervals. The length of your intervals also depends largely on the skills you're trying to work on. If you're just generally trying to get faster, I'd say do intervals of 3-5 minutes, but no longer.

There's been a lot of previous discussion on intervals, so I'd also recommend running a search and see what others have said in previous threads.

Good luck.

asgelle

Unless of course you want to train functional threshold which is most effectively done at or below threshold. https://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/levels.asp


Basically intervals shoud be done at the effort which allows the most rapid adaptations desired. This usually means choosing the effort which allows the largest volume of training at the level which most effectively stresses the desired metabolic system. This rarely entails training at the highest possible effort for the duration. It certainly doesn't mean training at 100% for the first interval. Given that it takes 24 hours or more to recover and repeat a similar effort for a 4 km pursuit (4+ minutes), all that is acomplished by puting in a 100% effort in the first interval is insuring that all subsequent efforts will be performed at a lower than desired level.

urbanknight

Thanks, I was trying to talk myself out of getting back into racing.

R600DuraAce

That's why training with HR is very poor because your HR can change so much so drastically. Going by legs feel can also be a problem because you may have fatigue residue as a result of poor recovery after your last hard ride. If you do train solo frequently, go get a power meter. You use your threshold power as a your reference point. And if you are having problem just try to sustain your effort even below your threshold power, you are either in need of rest or you have some other overtraining issue.

grebletie

You mean tempo?

[edit] if you're awash in extra money, go ahead and buy a power meter. But you can train effectively without one.

R600DuraAce

You mean to ride with friends who have one???

Enthalpic

Good point. However, sometimes people can get confused when so many 100% figures are thrown around. Is it 100% of LT, 100% of VO2max or 100% effort (>VO2max e.g. CP,ATP systems). You are certainly right that interval intensities should be chosen to maximize duration at the target power level.

IMO the “ideal” endurance athlete interval intensity and duration will not be the same for everybody. To figure it out, first do a staircase VO2max type test to determine power at VO2max (pVO2max, the VO2 max need not be determined). Then on a second day, when fresh, test for sustainable duration at pVO2max (SDpVO2max). Once you know how long you can hold “max” (not truly your max) do intervals at pVO2max for 60% of SDpVO2max.